33 replies to this topic

[dasherhalo]

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I challenge you or anybody else, to go without their car for as long as it is required by the shop and pay a shop $50 per hour to plan, test and execute an installation to your satisfaction.....

16 Days and counting.............. I sincerely hope they aren't working continuously on it: the $$$ sould be the death of me!!! (if the other half finds out how much, that is )

[smeg]

Thanks very much for all of your thoughts, opinions and experiences guys! I didn;t think my questions would get such involved responses from so many guys

*cartman*

I love you guys

eh

screw you guys

[T-Bro]

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Originally posted by roughcactus:

While i can understand the above points you fail to mention the major factor that will dictate how good your system sounds when getting it installed by a pro.....it is how much you want to spend on the installation.

sure, this has a big impact on the final result. that said, there are courtesy's and honest treatment that cost the dealer nothing, but that most shops dont provide.

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I challenge you or anybody else, to go without their car for as long as it is required by the shop and pay a shop $50 per hour to plan, test and execute an installation to your satisfaction.....

most people wouldn't, and those who wouldnt dont deserve a high-end system the reality is, a top SQ install takes time, and time is something your average enthusiastic 20 year old doesnt like giving up. worse, alot of people wont pay someone ELSE for their time. this is why DIY, done in stages, in ones spare time, is the only real viable and affordable way, to get a high end installation. but i agree with you, people expect the outcome of a 2 month install over a weekend.

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The reason we all hear people piss and moan about their system not being as good as they thought it would be is because THEY not the shop dictated the end result by wanting their car back quickly or they didn't want to spend the money to do it right in the first place.

agreed. but there are ALOT of shops out there, that after you pay them good money for an install, take shortcuts and plain out lie to your face about what they have done.

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I've worked as a salesperson/installer for about 12 years now and the one thing that has been consistant all this time is that people expect shops to work like a charity......ie do me an awesome sounding system but i want to pay peanuts....well gues what! you pay peanuts you get monkeys....it's as simple as that.  

cant argue with that

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If you owned your own business and i asked you to work for 40 hours but paid you for 20....you would cut corners because you are not being paid fairly....why do people think a car audio store is any different.Quality Cost's......YOU GET THE SQ YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR......no more no less

As for stores....this is a generalisation but if you go to a chain store and expect the people there to have a clue about SQ think again....chain stores usually do not attract enthusiasts in any way, shape or form because the guys get paid on commision....which means they have to sell snow to eskimos to make a decent wage......any installer or salesperson who is an ehtusiast with any kind of work ethic would not work at a place like it.....a great place to buy cheap components but hardly conducive to getting quality gear and the right advice.

yep, and i think we all know the kind of chains we are referring to here. it is foolish to expect them to perform high end installations with anything less than a company demo car or highly paid project. their business model is based on moving lots of boxes quickly, and getting as many installs through the bay as possible before close, at the least possible cost. they DEPEND on having an ignorant and non-critical customer base. and the sad reality is, most installers start their training at such places, and it sets the standard for the industry.

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I built a couple of cars for mates of mine...one of which which finished second in the country in the IASCA national finals a few years ago.  I spent ages on that car not doing anything flashy but concentrating on SQ first and foremost with a few tricks thrown in.....because i love car audio.....now i did this install in my own time with his help but had he gone to a shop the bill including planning, testing tuning etc.....would have been about 3 weeks worth....so 120hrs X $50hr = 6000.00 and that's without equipment which came to about $3700.00....bottom line.....who here would like to shell out $6000 for install, tuning etc....

what i guess id like to see, is more installers who openly and honestly disclose to the customer, things such as you have just mentioned - that a realistic and live sounding install cannot be done for $300 before 5pm, that it will rattle and resonate, that the stage will be on your lap, that there will be virtually no imaging as listener-side bias will be extreme, that high volume listening will be painful due to peaks in frequency response, and so on. ive never heard of installers this honest. most will just ask what components you want to put in, where you want them mounted, any additions, and when you want to pick it up. there is almost no talk of the level or type of sound quality that is to be achieved. its almost like, most installers dont gives a f$%& at all what it actually will sound like, they just want to put some expensive decorations in you dash and boot for you to make some impressive noise for if an installer doesn't discuss and help you pre-anticipate the desired musical result, they really are nothing more than an auto electrician.

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As for advice i agree that the biggest problem is that a lot of people get do get bad or biased advice.....i run my own install busines and i do not sell any products, however i invite my customers to ring me because if they need any advice selecting equip etc i am more than happy to help them out.....because i hate to see people get stooged just as much as you do.

you're one of 'the rare' installers i mentioned in my original post that people should pursue - installers with DA LOVE people in the industry should understand, it is INVALUABLE being a friend of the customer, the places i go back to and spend more money at are always the ones that know my name, ask how im going, how the last component i bought worked outl, or better yet, ask to come out to the car park and get in and LISTEN to my system. they are the people with the love of the hobby, and they are the ones to put your money with.

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One other thing if i cannot do the job to MY satisfaction i will turn the work away....if you want it done right and are willing to pay a fair price i will do it, if you want it done dirt cheap and dodgy piss off...i don't need the work that bad.  Every job i do has my name and reputation staked on it so the one poor job you do bites you in the **** ....so if the job is gonna be a pain in the ****  i charge accordingly.... nothing more nothing less

thats the way to do it, and its a solid strategy for long term business success. pity most of the installers / salespeople ive come across have no such regard for their own reputations.

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Just because you have had bad experiences don't blanket us all with the 'we don't care and we don't know what we are doing ' tag....my record as a installer ,salesperson and judge speaks for its self.......remember an enthusiast is an enthusiast whether novice or professional.....In closing there are more of us pro installers out there with a love of car audio than you might think.

no offence intended dude yes there are some installers out there whose skills and attachment to the hobby are inspiring, and your attitude is reassuring.

i just wish your type outnumbered the dodgy type who forced me years ago to do all my own installations

peace

[Dr DJ Choss]

if the budget has restrictions, i'd say buy less gear but higher quality and do a good well planned install. pair of good splits or two way in the front, and clean 4 ch amp with adjustable crossover and bridgable, and a very efficient sub in a solid box that won't drain the amp every time it goes boom.

then add some decent cable, a decent ground network for car and it's audio and a new battery too.

advice from paul graham (Alpine)quite a while ago.
it worked for me.