14 replies to this topic

[stoff]

hey,

well my tweeters are in stock locations which are high up in the door and are going to stay there until i can get them down in the kickpanels..anyway, i'm just wondering what each tweeter should be pointing/angled at?

like the passenger/left tweeter should be aimed at the ears of the driver right?
but how about the right tweeter, should that be aimed at the driver or the passenger?

i got my splits installed by a shop, and i think they have it that the left tweeters and right tweeters are both aiming at the driver.
while this sounds alright with some TA when in driving position, i noticed that in the passenger seat it sounds absolutely crap..where u can only hear the left speakers etc..

so im just wonderin whats the best way to aim the tweeters, and also whether in most of your systems the imaging is as good in both the driver and passenger seats? or is one side always better than the other..

ps: is it good to have the tweeters both exactly off axis? ie. directly pointing at each other?

thanks! sorry for the long post

[OP]

the opposite headrest, or the light in the middle

[roughcactus]

How to find the right angle to mount the tweeters in your particular car???...

I have but three words to say....

1) experimentation
2) experimentation
3) and guess what experimentation

There are no rules about what works and what doesn't!, don't get sucked into kick panels are great cause everybody else says so....Kickpanels DO NOT work in every car!!! You can get great results is some cars and better results using door or a pillar mounted tweeters in others...The only way you are ever gonna know what works is to experiment with tweeter positioning yourself...I have had kick panel, a pillar mounted and door mounted tweeters in my own cars over the years and each has advantages and disadvantages...but many people seem to think kick panel speakers are a magical cure for poor imaging, stage width and sounstage faults....there is no such thing..

Muck around with some blue tack and different locations for your tweeters stick em on and audition your system using well recorded music....listen to the system and list the advantages and disadvantages of each location then make a decision from there....not only will you probably save a lot of time, effort and money but you will learn a lot about your system the accoustics of your car and how to get the most out of what you have....

Hope this helps...

[T-Bro]

roughcactus: word!

[Bassaholic]

Well since this is the age of computers, experimentation is not the only way to do it..

You could measure/model the on and off axis responses of your speakers, then model your cars interior - to predict all of the reflections you will get with your speakers at particular locations and angles..

Of course at the end of the day (at the moment anyway), its FAR easier/quicker to do the experimentation.

[roughcactus]

Quote

Originally posted by Bassaholic:
Well since this is the age of computers, experimentation is not the only way to do it..

You could measure/model the on and off axis responses of your speakers, then model your cars interior - to predict all of the reflections you will get with your speakers at particular locations and angles..

Of course at the end of the day (at the moment anyway), its FAR easier/quicker to do the experimentation.  

Thats what everybody used to say about RTA's...and we all know what looks good to test equipment usually sounds like doggy doo doo..

[audible]

Quote

Thats what everybody used to say about RTA's...and we all know what looks good to test equipment usually sounds like doggy doo doo..

lol, never known what doggy doo doo sounded like before, now i know!

another useful tip for experiementing with tweeter placement is a piece of backing strap. bolt/fix the tweet to one end, and you can bolt/screw/clamp the other end to what ever in your car.

bend it, shape it, any way you want it....

[shiny_car]

Quote

Originally posted by stoff:
like the passenger/left tweeter should be aimed at the ears of the driver right?
but how about the right tweeter, should that be aimed at the driver or the passenger?

if it's only a temporary setup, then aiming them towards the opposite-seat headrest should be fine. this generally makes tweeters 'cross over' (their sound paths) at a central point just infront of the listeners (ie: between the seats, and out infront).

then use TA to fine tune the soundstage to your liking.

what splits btw, just curious?

[stoff]

MB Quart DSD216's..
im looking currently to upgrade to focals..or anything around the $500 mark (street price)
what can i expect better with focals..eg the 165K? better imaging? are the tweeters similar to the quarts..since they're both metal domes..?

[Bassaholic]

Quote

Originally posted by roughcactus:
Thats what everybody used to say about RTA's...and we all know what looks good to test equipment usually sounds like doggy doo doo..

 

Not at all.. The trick is taking into account the reflections and the fact that your listening device is infact two ears with a head between them..

I agree that the use of an RTA is flawed in a car - but build one that takes measurements at many small time intervals - as well as using 2 mics and placing a head between them Then it'd become a useful piece of equipment if you know how to use it..

[shiny_car]

Quote

Originally posted by stoff:
im looking currently to upgrade to focals..what can i expect better with focals..eg the 165K? better imaging? are the tweeters similar to the quarts..since they're both metal domes..?

the polykevlar focals will have better drivers and better quality xovers. as such, you'll get better sound reproduction across the spectrum, from midbass, vocal clarity/midrange, and nicer treble. the HP for the tweeter may be lower, meaning the tweeter will cover more of the frequency spectrum; so if the tweet is optimally angled in the car, you will have potential for better imaging given that more info will come from these angled drivers (as opposed to the off-axis woofers).

of course it may not be so cut and dry, and will depend on the tonal quality and overall quality of the focals. but i have heard them sounding very, very nice, so you should find them a good upgrade.

others to consider would be the hertz HSK165's, alpine type-R, pioneer aramid-cone TS-D160R, PG tantrum series, dls magnesium series, boston rally's, and mbq's own reference series.

good luck

[stoff]

cool..well i listen to mostly hiphop/r&b..and i was told today at a shop that the focals are just too bright for that kind of music being metal domes..
and i had a listen to dynaudio...
all i can say is that i think ill put off this upgrade to the kevlars, and go straight to dyns!
do you know what the RRP of the system240GT is? and/or the best streetprice i could expect
its a 6.5" woofer isnt it? the guy said it was 6.8"..

thanks

[PartyJase]

Tha Hombre has run focals before and likes to listen to that kinda music so maybe PM him for his opinion of whether they are too bright or not.

the better focal crossovers come with attenuation switches so if they are too bright can attenuate them a little bit. or u could use the headunit EQ to do it as well.

kick mounting the tweeters can also help reduce the brightness if u still think they are, but then can have issues with stage height and so on.

don't take the salemans word on it - whats bright to him might be dull to u. try and demo them somewhere.

think dyn 240s go for bout 800 retail - someone will be able to correct me on this.

[shiny_car]

Quote

Originally posted by PartyJase:
Tha Hombre has run focals before and likes to listen to that kinda music so maybe PM him for his opinion of whether they are too bright or not.

...and he now runs dyn's!

[PartyJase]

i did say he used to run them - coz i've got his focal's now

and he hasn't got the dyns yet and is also gonna sell his orion two channel for a more powerful one.

i'm sure he'll do a great job with them and hopefully get it into a SQ show this time.