9 replies to this topic

[JoelSoo]

Guys,

i was proposing a double midbass setup and was thinking of going 3 way... so this is that i proposed...

Sub : LPF @63hz (IDMAX)
Midbass : HPF @63hz and LPF @450hz (CDT audio HD6 2 pairs per door)
Midrange: HPF @450hz and LPF @2.5k (undecided)
Tweets : HPF @2.5k and beyond.. (morel MT2)
ambience tweets maybe for lifting of soundstage...

well, i need general advice on this midrange frequency playing.... the abovewritten is just a proposal as i'm new to 3 way systems.. all the while i'd been playing 2 way and guess its time to crack my brains for 3 way now... i may be wrong.. so any suggestions?

what's the pros and Cons for having 4 inch as midrange as compared to 5.25 inch midranges? and usually, what's the best frequency range that a midrange should play... (not midbass yer!) this, i've got to learn more from u guys..

any good recommendations for midrange speakers? VIFAS maybe? they're cheaper.. hmmm.... or morels...*Gulp*

oh yeah, one more thing, i'm running off a pioneer DEH-9450, which only have 2 way frontstage + sub out, i was thinking of building a passive xover for the midbass and midrange and run it off the mid output of the HU, but wonder if there's any "problems" from the double midbass which is wired in 2 ohm impencance.. guess the xover would'nt be easy to make huh...

appreciate all comments.... cheers!

JOEL

[Maz]

That sounds like a pretty good idea.

Not very hard at all to build the passive crossovers. Building them for 2ohm and 4ohm will just need different values and thats about it.

Personally i would go for a 4inch midrange. Have a look at the Hertz HV100's. They are extremely cheap and would take over 100wrms when being used as a mid.

I would actually get the hertz 3way crossovers, u can buy these seperately. This low passes the woofer at 500hz.. bandpasses the mid at 500-4500, tweeter plays from 4500hz up.

As the tweeter and mid is 4ohm it willbe fine. However the woofers being 2ohm will lower the crossover point from 500hz to 250hz. However this might not be a bad thing. As the woofers are 2ohm they will be getting more power, the extra sensitvity will mean they are louder.

So realistically there wont be a dip, where it goes down and then back up, but it will just drop down and level off as the mid and tweeter wont be able to be as loud as the woofers.

As the crossovers have antenuation to reduce the volumes of the drivers it should actually work quite well indeed.

[ October 26, 2003, 21:11: Message edited by: Maz ]

[JoelSoo]

thanks for u'r reply!! really appreciate it!

hmm.. whats the Hertz HV100's frequency response graph like? all the way flat to 4500hz? hmmm.. i was thnking of getting something to hit the 2500 region, then let the mt2's take over, can achieve more details then... hehee...

maybe i should read up more on making mt own xovers... is there a source that u can recommend? i'm still new to this.. i've got ppl telling me that after building them, its better to u a computer simulation to test and refine it or somethin like that, u know what this's all about?

cheers and will digest u'r prev thread more.. thanks!

[Doigal]

I was looking at doing something simular to that with the hertz gear. When you say cheap, what would we be talking there? Just a rough guess...

[Maz]

You could easily run the HV100 up to 2500hz an let the tweeter play from there, however you'll be able to turn it up louder with the higher crossover point.

The hertz High energy speakers are extremely accurate and wouldn't have any problems playing up to 4500hz.

My mate has a similar setup that Doigal might be interested in.

He is using the 3way crossover,

Woofer: Hertz High Energy 8inch woofers
Mid: Hertz Mille midrange
Tweeter: Hertz High Energy HT-25

Only problem is that the Mille woofer is 8ohm, that causes a drop in upper midrange, this would be fixed when using the High Energy midrange as it is 4ohm.

Custom crossovers are not hard at all to make, its just that mounting them all nicely is very hard to do. Like you dont have a printed pcb to stick all the components onto.

[Rockin]

Hey Joel.
Just my opinion but I don't see the point to a 4inch midrange that is flat to 4500Hz when those 6.5inch CDTs are flat to 7000Hz.

[Doigal]

thats exactly what I wanted to end up with, but realistically i know that i'm not going to be able to do so and probably will just get an 8" and 3way xover to go with the 5.25" HSKs that I've got at the moment.

I belive that Jaycar sell xover kits, but they are for 8ohm speakers. You'd still be able to use the boards though i'd imagine - I think they sell blank 3way boards for about $20 ea.

Who sells the hertz 3way xover and the indivual woofers?

[JoelSoo]

Rockin,

yeah cdts are flat to 7000 but i was thinking of playing them as midbass as they will be at the door, if i run them 2 way, and cross them all the way up till 7k i might be facing problems of imaging well as there won't be much aiming coz they're at the doors...

the thought of going 3 way with 4 inch or 5.25 inch in the kicks as midrange is so that i can aim them to achieve better imaging and staging.. and same goes for the tweets to be proposed in the kicks....

i may be wrong, this is just what i planned i was looking at more comments from everyone here to see if i'm heading the correct direction...

Furthermore, althought CDT's spects sheet says that its flat till 7k, personally, i think using a 6.5 inch midbass to play till 7k will not be as approprate as compared to the amount of details that of a midrange or tweeter... its like using a rucksack to pack u'r documents and head for work in u'r office in the city instead of a briefcase, both serves the same purpose allright, but is it approprate? hahaa... sorry for the bad example that i quote..

At 5k and beyond, i think the CDTs will not produce the rich details that tweeters can at 5k... am i right? guys feel free to correct me as i may be wrong too... i'm also still learning...

cheers!

[JoelSoo]

its getting more and more interesting... anyone else out there have the thought of running a setup similar? or have a setup done which is similar?

i opted for double mids of the CDTs with the following reasons..

1)mounting an 8 inch in the door is really pain in the ass.. for my case.. haha..

2) 2x 6.5 is supposedly better response than a single 8 inch...

3) i personally like CDT's lean and snappy midbass, too bad they do not produce 8 inch woofers...even if they do, mounting depth might be a big problem..

4) the steel frame of my door allows me to cut the internal door steel structure sideways, but not UPwards as there bracing and also window winding mechanisms.. fitting in 8 inch would require me to cut the door's metal UPwards for proper venting, therefore, double mids, i can cut off more metal sideways for the venting of the 2nd mid..

what else?

[Maz]

Problem i see is that having two sources in the one door playing say 4000hz. The path difference between the two drivers will cause lots of node and anti nodes in the midrange frequencies.

With the lower frequencies the wave lengths are so long that even if they are slightly off it sounds the same.

From your seat u could play test tones in the midrange frequency and u'll reach points where u get 100% interfearance on the one side and the whole stage shifts to the other side of the car.

But thats playing tones. Music it wont be obvious but it would till be there.

Probably better of running say one 6.5inch from 200hz down and one 6.5inch from 200hz up. Or go with the 4inch midrange.