A thought has occured to me. When choosing a pair of speakers for a car, the component about which there seems to be the biggest variation of opinions, what particular strength, or combination of strengths, determines the choice of that speaker as "the best"?
Just curious.
Steve Hutchison
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Hutch
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Why ? is best?
Started by LongGone, Oct 15 2002 11:23 PM
28 replies to this topic
#1
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Posted 15 October 2002 - 11:23 PM
#2
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Posted 15 October 2002 - 11:33 PM
when choosing a pair of speakers i look for the speakers with the greatest natural reproduction (closest to real life) without any coloration or brightness added etc. When i chose my PERSONAL preference it must have great abilities with high notes (i love cymbols etc) without any harshness and must have a lot of midbass as my music contains a great deal of midbass (this is where effiency comes to play with my speakers).
The worst thing i think when people chose a speaker is they 'brand shop' as in they see the brand Focal and think wow they must sound great, however, you cannot do this as you can really get a big suprise!
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Marc A
1968 Ford Cortina Mark 2 (Rare 2 Door Model)
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Team Gates
[Edited 1 time by Slain on 15 October 2002 at 21:34]
The worst thing i think when people chose a speaker is they 'brand shop' as in they see the brand Focal and think wow they must sound great, however, you cannot do this as you can really get a big suprise!
------------------
Marc A
1968 Ford Cortina Mark 2 (Rare 2 Door Model)
1998 Suzuki Across
- 134.7dB with 100rms of Weconic Grunt!
- PROUD SUPPORTER OF THE CAA SPL PROJECT
- CAR AUDIO Magazine - A date is set! Late October!!!!
- No More Milky Bar Kid, I'm The Copy / Paste Kid!!!!
Team Gates
[Edited 1 time by Slain on 15 October 2002 at 21:34]
#3 Guest_vti-2_*
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Posted 15 October 2002 - 11:53 PM
Even though this is a really obvious answer, the characteristics i look for (and probably all other SQ people) is the ability of the components to reproduce the recording as it was intended. If the components can do this, or get close to doing this they are reproducing midbass, midrange and higher frequencies exactly the way we were meant to hear them.
The difficult part of doing this is trying to get a particular brand, or selection of components to do just that in your particular car, which i have found almost impossible. The one thing i can't stand is direction sound, for example tweeters mounted in the dash. This will in most cases never permit proper acoustics although i may be proved wrong. (am i getting side tracked??)
The particular strengths i look for are solid build quality, use of high quality components, large VC's, big magnets and durable materials.
At the end of the day, everyone has different tastes so there will never be a perfect set of splits or components. As individuals we will always be trying to set up that elusive SQ system.
Hopefully mine will sound perfect to me once it is done.
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Honda - The Power of Dreams
Honda Integra VTi-R
System in progress: Alpine, Audison, G-Spot, JL Audio, Morel, Optima
The difficult part of doing this is trying to get a particular brand, or selection of components to do just that in your particular car, which i have found almost impossible. The one thing i can't stand is direction sound, for example tweeters mounted in the dash. This will in most cases never permit proper acoustics although i may be proved wrong. (am i getting side tracked??)
The particular strengths i look for are solid build quality, use of high quality components, large VC's, big magnets and durable materials.
At the end of the day, everyone has different tastes so there will never be a perfect set of splits or components. As individuals we will always be trying to set up that elusive SQ system.
Hopefully mine will sound perfect to me once it is done.
------------------
Honda Integra VTi-R
System in progress: Alpine, Audison, G-Spot, JL Audio, Morel, Optima
#4
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 01:07 AM
Thank you gentlemen. I suggested this parallel to a dealer the other day. If I took a photo of my wife, who has red hair, and the photos came back from the shop and her hair looked yellow, I would instantly know that the reproduction in the photos was wrong because I know what the colours yellow and red look like and I also know what my wifes hair looks like live, so to speak. The aberration from reality is obvious. The colourations components add to what we hear are there but are not so obvious unless we are extremely familiar with the original. I am making sense?
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Hutch
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Hutch
#5
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 01:10 AM
WHat makes a speaker the best is that it sounds the best. Obviously thats a personal judgement so their can be no best speaker, only the best for the person who owns/hears it.
peace
cyberpunky
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peace
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#6
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 01:16 AM
To go a bit Zen on your question Hutch, how do you know what I see as red is the same as you see as red, as what we perceive as colours are just electric signals transfered from the ocular nerve to the brain, and so only exist in side our heads. A cat will see a different spectrum or an owl and so perception is a relative concept.
The same applies to audio and hearing as what we hear is just an electrical impulse that is transmitted from our ear to our brain and is interprted by our brain
Does chicken really taste like chicken... (quote from the matrix)
peace
Cyberpunky
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"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"Out beyond ideas of wrong doing and right doing there lies a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi
"forget the specs, and just listen to what is watt" Cyberpunky
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more? click here
TEAM Digital-Is-A-Marketing-Gimic Member
TO VISIT MY SITE CLICK HERE
The same applies to audio and hearing as what we hear is just an electrical impulse that is transmitted from our ear to our brain and is interprted by our brain
Does chicken really taste like chicken... (quote from the matrix)
peace
Cyberpunky
------------------
Like to know more? click here
#7
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 01:22 AM
Exactly!
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Hutch
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Hutch
#8
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 11:14 AM
I like to go back to basics (and a bit of Zen ) but does a piano sound like a piano to you with those speakers?
I start by choosing a group of sounds I am familar with "live".
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Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE
) but does a piano sound like a piano to you with those speakers?I start by choosing a group of sounds I am familar with "live".
------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE
#9
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 11:31 AM
I'de have to agree with everyone here so far.
I have gone through a fair few speakers...Dynaudio, Alpine, Morel, JL, Polk and each one sounded completely different. What i find to be a nice sounding speaker others may find it is not to their taste.
But also remember that when auditioning speakers always use a cd with tracks that you are very familiar with...and remember what you hear on the demo boards will not be what you hear in your car.
Same with home hifi speakers, you go into the demo rooms which are set up for speakers to sound nice...once you get those speakers home they will sound different to what they sounded like in the shop.
Another point i'd like to make is that you also have to consider the source playing the cd and the amps sending the signal to your speakers...i doubt very much that you will find a store that has everything on the boards that you have on your car....a very good audio store (and i was lucky to find one) will let you audition the speakers in your car prior to buying them...very hard to get that sort of service today unless you know the owner very well.
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I'm as confused as a baby at a topless bar
I don't have a solution but i admire the problem
Computers can never replace human stupidity
I have gone through a fair few speakers...Dynaudio, Alpine, Morel, JL, Polk and each one sounded completely different. What i find to be a nice sounding speaker others may find it is not to their taste.
But also remember that when auditioning speakers always use a cd with tracks that you are very familiar with...and remember what you hear on the demo boards will not be what you hear in your car.
Same with home hifi speakers, you go into the demo rooms which are set up for speakers to sound nice...once you get those speakers home they will sound different to what they sounded like in the shop.
Another point i'd like to make is that you also have to consider the source playing the cd and the amps sending the signal to your speakers...i doubt very much that you will find a store that has everything on the boards that you have on your car....a very good audio store (and i was lucky to find one) will let you audition the speakers in your car prior to buying them...very hard to get that sort of service today unless you know the owner very well.
------------------
audison 2.250 / 1.400
DYNAUDIO System 240mk11
O P T I M A Yellow top
Stinger Cables and accessories
I don't have a solution but i admire the problem
Computers can never replace human stupidity
#10
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 01:26 PM
while i'd like to say that my criterea is a speaker that is transparent and allows the original performance to come through uncoloured - the reality is that *ALL* speakers produce colouration. it is a matter of how much colouration you can put up with, and what kind of colouration is least offensive / most appealing to you.
but the key criterea that i buy speakers on is EMOTION. does my music move me emotionally and make me feel great? does the spirit of the artist come through to me personally? do i feel like sitting back for hours and hours listening to my favourite albulms? if yes, i buy
i think emotional connection is the only real universal criterea that everyone would be well served to follow in their system building.
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Custom SQ System
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Source: Clarion DXZ925 w/ DPL2 Decoder - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics Pro 5.5LF - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street
but the key criterea that i buy speakers on is EMOTION. does my music move me emotionally and make me feel great? does the spirit of the artist come through to me personally? do i feel like sitting back for hours and hours listening to my favourite albulms? if yes, i buy
i think emotional connection is the only real universal criterea that everyone would be well served to follow in their system building.
------------------
Dolby Prologic II in 3.1
#11
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 03:56 PM
"Hear, hear, T-Bro!"
If it wasn't for the emotional connection, music would just be noise.
------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE
If it wasn't for the emotional connection, music would just be noise.
------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE
#12
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 05:32 PM
For me I take along a particular recording
Public Enemy - Crash
And I listen for things I know shouldnt be there but are.. some examples being:
- Are the lead singers vocals harsh & grating or smooth & clean ? His voice should sound harsh and grating (heard him live so I know what I'm listening for)
- Is there a background crackle or background hiss ? There should be a slight pop & hiss remanant of the old vinyl days. And yes they're meant to be there for an "authentic" feel
As well as the normal things like the ability to reproduce the low bass notes and to handle the dynamic panning effects properly.
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WF Festiva Clarion, Kenwood, Rockford Fosgate, StreetWires Small, Blue, Different
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Public Enemy - Crash
And I listen for things I know shouldnt be there but are.. some examples being:
- Are the lead singers vocals harsh & grating or smooth & clean ? His voice should sound harsh and grating (heard him live so I know what I'm listening for)
- Is there a background crackle or background hiss ? There should be a slight pop & hiss remanant of the old vinyl days. And yes they're meant to be there for an "authentic" feel
As well as the normal things like the ability to reproduce the low bass notes and to handle the dynamic panning effects properly.
------------------
TR Magna: Alpine, Orion, Kenwood, StreetWires Big, Maroon, Different
WF Festiva Clarion, Kenwood, Rockford Fosgate, StreetWires Small, Blue, Different
- 2nd Bathurst LiveWire 0-160 Class, Oct.2k2 @ 138.4dB
Andu: Yeah take a photo, this is the only sport we're good at !
Clean throttle, IAC & filters, run a tank of PULP + 1 cup Metho
Required: Kove Armageddon, JBL 1200.1
#13
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Posted 16 October 2002 - 11:25 PM
haha Im not the only who uses PE to suss stuff out
As CHuck says, "it will sound like chewing on gravel" when discussing the latest album. I have heard them live to and have been a fan since takes a nation... many years ago. I even have an autographed copy of He got game.
Anyway the best music is stuff you have heard a million times, as there should be no suprises, and you will have a fair idea what to expect.
peace
Cyberpunky
------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"Out beyond ideas of wrong doing and right doing there lies a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi
"forget the specs, and just listen to what is watt" Cyberpunky
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more? click here
TEAM Digital-Is-A-Marketing-Gimic Member
TO VISIT MY SITE CLICK HERE
As CHuck says, "it will sound like chewing on gravel" when discussing the latest album. I have heard them live to and have been a fan since takes a nation... many years ago. I even have an autographed copy of He got game.
Anyway the best music is stuff you have heard a million times, as there should be no suprises, and you will have a fair idea what to expect.
peace
Cyberpunky
------------------
Like to know more? click here
#14
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Posted 29 October 2002 - 02:55 AM
Quote
The worst thing i think when people chose a speaker is they 'brand shop' as in they see the brand Focal and think wow they must sound great, however, you cannot do this as you can really get a big suprise!
Quote
Thank you gentlemen. I suggested this parallel to a dealer the other day. If I took a photo of my wife, who has red hair, and the photos came back from the shop and her hair looked yellow, I would instantly know that the reproduction in the photos was wrong because I know what the colours yellow and red look like and I also know what my wifes hair looks like live, so to speak. The aberration from reality is obvious. The colourations components add to what we hear are there but are not so obvious unless we are extremely familiar with the original.
There is hope for SQ yet!
All you need for SQ, like painting a house a certain color, is a refference point like a paint chart. ( My favorite way this has been explained is the photo of the wife, LOVE IT! )
Unfortunatly ears cant use color charts.
Phil K
#15
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Posted 13 November 2002 - 07:15 PM
T-Bro got it just right.
I like speakers that have the right colouration for my taste. (and I'm not taking the piss here)
I tried choosing speakers that mimicked live sound but I found that most live sound was loud but sounded like crap. OK, it was impressive but I still wouldn't like my own system to sound like it.
I've played in unplugged bands, been to lotsa concerts, and mix multi channel audio for bands and so I kinda know what real sounds like.
As my Dad used to say with his tongue in his cheek when he was in the audio industry,
"Choose your colouration."
[ November 13, 2002, 17:19: Message edited by: Winno ]
I like speakers that have the right colouration for my taste. (and I'm not taking the piss here)
I tried choosing speakers that mimicked live sound but I found that most live sound was loud but sounded like crap. OK, it was impressive but I still wouldn't like my own system to sound like it.
I've played in unplugged bands, been to lotsa concerts, and mix multi channel audio for bands and so I kinda know what real sounds like.
As my Dad used to say with his tongue in his cheek when he was in the audio industry,
"Choose your colouration."
[ November 13, 2002, 17:19: Message edited by: Winno ]
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