28 replies to this topic

[Sonic Nirvana]

Took the words right out of my mouth.
"Choose your colouration" is one of my faves and is dead true.....IMO

[Cyberpunky]

I guess if SQ is goal then we are trying to get the speakers with the least colouration possible. If money was no object then we can get closer to this ideal but as thats not usually the case, we have to compromise and get the least colouration and of the type, that suits our tastes and budgets.

I have heard some Sonus Fabre Amati's ($30,000/pr) that are the most amazing uncoloured speakers I have ever heard, but I sure cant afford them and getting them mounted in car would be problematic
peace
Cyberpunky

[pingpong]

bringing up a dead cat...

why? cause i felt like it

[SQBOY]

I completely agree with all the comments above, and "transparent" is a term I use quite a bit with customers when trying to describe speakers. One thing I would like to add though is when I am designing a system for a customer and taking into account the type of car he/she has and the installation budget he/she has, I always take into account the speaker's off-axis response.

Some excellent speakers which are very transparent start to loose a bit of that transparency when you put them into a mobile environment. That accurate midbass may be dulled by the fact that the driver is not aimed directly at you, making the speaker sound lifeless and lacking warmth. So I guess when I look for a speaker, I not only take into account the transparancy of the speaker but also if the same transparancy is going to carry over into the car I planning for. This is one of the reasons why Dyns are one of my favourites. They are very accurate and remain true even when you mount the speaker off axis.

Just my 2.2c worth

[mike247]

Cyberpunky hit the nail hardest and most accurately on the head. Taste in speakers, and anything else that is determined from each person's own sensory perceptions is completely subjective.

Food, drink, music, texture, temperature, colour; anything that is processed by our senses is "coloured" by our own individual sensory frame of reference determines your interpretation.

It is what makes human beings different. Finding a common denominator among people is impossible.

The statements we have all made reflect a post-modernist view of the world where all is arbitrary and goings on are determined by a plethora of factors.

In response to Cyberpunky's assertion that "it's what sounds best to each individual", how then can you have a Sound Quality competition? SPL is quantitatively measured (subject to the meters). How can we have an effective measuring stick in SQ where the critera are completely subjective??

[Shieldsy]

i have to agree with t bro here... when i get into my car i wanna be moved by the music i listen to and wanna have the feeling that i just wanna listen to the music becos it's just so darn great!
hence why i love being in my car!
thats why sq it's at for sure!

[jas]

i just believe in picking a set of speakers that suit your install and musical references.

i can list some products that i like

scanspeak
vifa
focal
seas
dynaudio
cdt

"the best" is really up to you and what you want to achieve.

ITS A PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!!!!

[ November 10, 2003, 13:20: Message edited by: jas ]

[Cyberpunky]

Mika how can they judge best recipe/chef, best ice skater, best of show at a car show, best painter in an art show etc etc etc ???? Yes its subjective but if you have a strong framework to go on, then you can hopefully find an SQ best too.

Its not as linear(for example) as SPL comp or a motoGP, but does that mean we shouldnt do it ?

Sure some things are measuable, and others need to be defined according to predefined criteria, but to say one is valid and another isnt because of an ability to measure would mean we shouldnt indulge in many fine pursuits. Do you eat at the same resateruant everytime, or do you like to go to more than one ? Do you order the same meal every time or do you try variuos things off the menu ?

If you enjoyed a steak does that mean all food off menu is good, etc etc. life is full of subjective judgements and so even though it would be nice to measure the tastyness of a steak, sometimes we have to bite it and see if it tastes good, as thats all we can do.

SQ is like the steaks we (SQ judges team) had in Sydney, we all thought it was awesome. If most ppl think its good then it probably is
peace
Cyberpunky

[-DJ-]

i'm with phil on this one!

i vote top points to hutch for bringing up something that could've just wound-out like a flamer convention.

and, off topic, cyberp - the grand amati's. oooh aren't they heavenly! *pass me a tissue*

d

[Cyberpunky]

I like to call them "the heart breakers" as thats what they did to me lol If only I could get 6 numbers right in lotto, and oh yes they will be mine
peace
Punky

[finetune]

Having develved only slighty into the world of diy speaker building. I've found that the majority of manufacturers use not the top but mid range drivers.
Then having taken into concideration box construction, the sound of the speaker is moulded and shaped by its crossover. The crossover has to be tailored to bring out the best of the whole package, drivers, box, bracing, sound deading etc.

With all the disscussion here of different drivers and brands no one mentions its crossover.

If a set does not sound just right or has a certain peak to them,just sell and try another brand.
It must be a black art to investigate the crossover and change it.
Just because a speaker set with associated crossover sounds good in a small sedan does not mean it wiil be the same in a ute or wagon.

For most people how they buy them and sound in their car they are happy.

But for the discerning listener may be an investigation into all the parts of the total could be taken.

Sorry to ramble I'm home and bored.

[Bassaholic]

Quote

Originally posted by finetune:

With all the disscussion here of different drivers and brands no one mentions its crossover.

If a set does not sound just right or has a certain peak to them,just sell and try another brand.
It must be a black art to investigate the crossover and change it.
Just because a speaker set with associated crossover sounds good in a small sedan does not mean it wiil be the same in a ute or wagon.

This is most likely because passive crossovers are fairly hard to design/tune - some people could say that if the manufacturer can't get it right, then how could anyone else - but obviously the manufacturer had to make a given set of compromises that may be different to you, so for people who have knowledge and experience in that area there is no reason why improvements cannot be made (of course the amount of improvement it is relative to all of the factors involved...)

Although if I was going all out, I would go for a complete active setup - fully variable crossovers (slope, Q, frequency), many band variable stereo EQ, multi band time alignment etc - the ultimate bandaid fix.

[ November 11, 2003, 17:44: Message edited by: Bassaholic ]

[-DJ-]

i never post in the wrong page! NEVEEERR!

d

[ November 12, 2003, 20:05: Message edited by: DjHatton ]

[mike247]

Cyberpunky: I agree. I'm not saying I agree with that post-modern (everything is subjective) way of thinking. It's true that to not have and SQ comp would be a loss to everyone. I was just trying to point out that it's an imperfect art, but I guess everyone knows that.

There would be no point to a lot of things if we examined the criteria behind them. Who can be "the best" chef is a perfect example. I've found myself asking on here "what are these speakers like?" etc.. but in the end, I cannot get a real answer without auditioning them myself. The reason we ask the question "which is best" is often to find legitimacy for our own judgements.

Look it's a funked up way to think, I was just putting forward an argument that's out there to get people thinking. I'd have the balls to stand behind the argument but I don't agree with it either!