35 replies to this topic

[[JOGER]]

This question has comes to me for a while. But being a pro class SQ competitor and not knowing the Definition of SQ makes me quite amabarest to admit it in front of public.
But who cares, I bet some of the people here don't even know What is SQ?
Is it a good car sound that meet the owner expectation? Or to have all of the expensive equipmetn availabe and put it all together? If it is Sound Quality? Why does the car install have to looks good as well?
When I talked to other SQ competitors, the way they tune their car is quite diferent to me. I would prefer more low freq and freq in my car. But they say I have to have it flat. It's just quite boring to have proper SQ tuning and drive it around.

What is the quality that we are all trying to achive? I need some guidelines here.

Give some of your opinion

Cheers

[the_iano]

Having been a home audio buff for many years before crossing the border into car, these are my thoughts.

Sound Quality is essentially about music. When you listen to a piece of music you're witnessing a performance. The goal of all hifi is to reproduce music as closely as possible to the way it was originially recorded. Car SQ is much the same - to reproduce music in an accurate manner. The challenge herein lies within a cars interior which is an acoustic fortress, and not really suited to hifi at all.

[~Spyne~]

^^agree^^
my understanding was that the idea of SQ for cars, was to try and get the most accurate reproduction of the original recording as possible, given the restraints of a cars interior.

[Pulse-R]

What I have been told:
the judges with CAASQ are not looking for 'flat' EQ response, but there should be no more than 3dB jump between bands on a 1/3 octave analysis.

The more important is to have the sound, as mentioned above, sound most like it would on a good HiFi system

[pingpong]

Well my personal definition of what SQ should be is that not the endless quest for sonic perfection or to reproduce music such that it is 100% faithful to the original, but that it is reproduced such that the USER is happy with the outcome. I mean if my setup sounded A+ to me even after hearing other systems (which it doesn't, it sucks), personally I would not care one iota what some scoresheet or a judge could think about it.

My 50 cent Maccas cone

[audioquest]

Listening to car system is different from home system. The sound reproduction in a car is very different. Listening more from a proper set up stereo system will let you have an idea of how it should sound.

One of my own experience in CAASQ comp. Remember the F-1 CD we use to listen to. I have never listen to that F1 CD in my home, till the last few comp. I always complain how bad the bass sound in track 6 in my car. But when I play it at home, the bass is in total control, very very nice indeed in the bass. I start to use RTA to tune the bass and the sub-woofer as close as to my home system. Not easy at all to match and blend them in. I would say I am close to it now.

The most important it must sound coherent. Don't talk about the sound field in a car it will never be right.

[[JOGER]]

ikerr said:

Sound Quality is essentially about music.  When you listen to a piece of music you're witnessing a performance.  The goal of all hifi is to reproduce music as closely as possible to the way it was originially recorded.  Car SQ is much the same - to reproduce music in an accurate manner.  The challenge herein lies within a cars interior which is an acoustic fortress, and not really suited to hifi at all.

But how do u know when your system is as close as the way it was originally recorded?

Does it also mean that Good SQ is not necessary having a good sound?

Thx for the reply I learn something new everyday

[Bassaholic]

Pulse-R said:

What I have been told:
the judges with CAASQ are not looking for 'flat' EQ response, but there should be no more than 3dB jump between bands on a 1/3 octave analysis.

The more important is to have the sound, as mentioned above, sound most like it would on a good HiFi system

But a good hifi system has a flat response!

What you don't need to worry about is having a flat response inside your car on an RTA.

The issue is that in a car there are many reflections - sound coming from many directions at different times. Now our brain processes this and despite the reflections, it is possible (if installed well) that it may still sound good (evident by the many SQ cars that sound great). However, if you were to measure the response with an RTA, it will often not look even close to flat.

This is (except at low frequencies where it has less issues) due to the fact that the RTA does not take time into account properly, an RTA is not very well suited to measuring the frequency response inside a car.

[ultim8DTM5]

Sq is whatever the hell you want it to be.

Its subjective.

If you think it sounds like good quality to your ears, then thats what it is. You shouldn't let other people tell you otherwise if you like what you hear.

[the_iano]

'[JOGER said:

']But how do u know when your system is as close as the way it was originally recorded?

Does it also mean that Good SQ is not necessary having a good sound?  

Thx for the reply I learn something new everyday

Excellent question. Not all discs are created equal. On some the production is truly lush with endless hours spent. Others are recorded and mixed in 3 days.

Best way to know exactly how revealing your system can be, is to listen to one that reveals ALL (a home setup of course). Im talking serious cash here - upwards of $20-$30k. One thats so damn good it acts simply as a messenger, thereby inserting no sonic signature of its own. Just one listen to a setup like that can act as your ultimate benchmark.

Getting back to my original point, if a system is revealing and properly in tune, decent recordings (Norah Jones, Diana Krall, Dire Straits for eg) will sound spine tingling whereas mass produced pop will probably sound quite horrid. Life eh....hehe you end up leaving all but the most perfect recordings on the shelf.

[angelo kanci]

ikerr said:

Excellent question.  Not all discs are created equal.  On some the production is truly lush with endless hours spent.  Others are recorded and mixed in 3 days.

Best way to know exactly how revealing your system can be, is to listen to one that reveals ALL (a home setup of course).  Im talking serious cash here - upwards of $20-$30k.  One thats so damn good it acts simply as a messenger, thereby inserting no sonic signature of its own.  Just one listen to a setup like that can act as your ultimate benchmark.    

Getting back to my original point, if a system is revealing and properly in tune, decent recordings (Norah Jones, Diana Krall, Dire Straits for eg) will sound spine tingling whereas mass produced pop will probably sound quite horrid.  Life eh....hehe you end up leaving all but the most perfect recordings on the shelf.

Hey guys thats why i also bought the apogee dac for its head phone outputs so as to compare the sounds.

[Pulse-R]

ikerr said:

Life eh....hehe you end up leaving all but the most perfect recordings on the shelf.

tell me about it - most of my cd's are too crap to listen to in the car
all you can hear is the compression/dynamic eq/etc and nasty background noise

a lot of albums have just plain grubby sound

[Car Audio Design]

I have never been to a SQ comp before nor do i know much about them. Im wondering if one has chosen a particular recording, is the set up of the cars audio system adjusted to that one recording to get the best SQ results?
Do the judges of these competitions have something set up to to compare the recording to what it originally sounds like to when its played in the car?
Are the recordings judged on a limited style of music or can it be anything as long as its been produced well?
If these SC comp details are answered somewhere else just let me know where or you could explain answers to my questions just here. thanks

I can't agree with whoever said SQ was subjective. I believe there is more too it then 'yeah this sounds good to me, so therefore it's good SQ'. Music is subjective as we all have our own taste in what we like in music. If someone likes a style of music and it sounds good to them it doesnt mean that its talanted or musically structered well which is what makes music 'good'. In SQ i think judgements should be based on quality as compared to talent or skill in music. wouldn't the competitions be rather useless and pointless if any set up could be regarded as 'good SQ' based on subjectivity?

[audible]

Ah, the age old question. What is sound quality?

In all of my years of mucking around with sound quality and stuff in various formats, I have to say that it all boils down to one thing.

Music, is designed to be enjoyed. In other words, It is meant to entertain the listener so that the listener enjoys what they are hearing.
Each and every listener is an individual. Some people can gain enjoyment listening to their favorite songs on a 20 buck pos radio cassette, or can only enjoy listening to their music from a pure this and that top end system.

But the bottom line is, that it is the listener who decides what is sound quality.
Some people may only enjoy truely live music, or thru a two speaker home system, head phones or car system. Each source can have its own unique character that also adds to the enjoyment of the listener. For the live audience listener, it could be the visual aspect of watching the musicians perform as they are playing, the car listener the "all around" sound where they are seated right inside the music and the home listener could well enjoy the bottle of scotch and nibblies on a table along side the favorite listening chair.

We are all individuals.

So, is it right for other people to decide what sounds right for every listener of music? Can a car stereo judge mark a car system poorly when the owner considers it to be the best thing they have ever heard because their opinion or personal taste is very different?

So, the bottom line is that the definition of sound quality is up to the person in between the pair of ears listening to it. Experts and help guide others by "judging" various components and offering advice, but at the end of the day, it is up to the listener to decide how to listen to their own preference of music, so why not let them decide what is sound quality and what is not?

[Cyberpunky]

well I look at this way. If a lot of ppl listen to expensive set up and all agree its sounds great then it probably is. For judges training we used a pair of sonus faber grand amaiti's with a rega cd going via a Pathos twin towers amp. This set up imaged incredibly well was spectrally balanced and Im yet to meet anyone who has heard it think its anything but amazing.

I think there is a difference between SQ and what you like. I have a comp setting and an everyday setting for my system. Sure you can say its subjective but I tend to think that anyone who listens to the cars that are winning caasq would agree they sound fantastic, even thou none of them sound the same.

Anyway to me SQ is about faithful reproduction period. Fidelity coming from the latin for pure
fidelity = 1: the accuracy of the representation when compared to the real world. 2: (a) the similarity, both physical and functional, between the simulation and that which it simulates, (B) ameasure of the realism of a simulation, or © the degree to which the representation within a simulation is similar to a real world object, feature, or condition in a measurable or perceivable manner.

Now before every says it must be subjective as its not measured, well it comes down to experience. we all know what colour red is for example because we all have expereince of that colour(excluding the colour blind). You dont need to measure that its red, you just know. SQ is the same. When you have experienced true high fidelity, you know it when you hear it, and so ppl can be trained to know what to listen for by experince.

As sq is trying to reproduce perfection, its something that cant be done and SQ is about getting as close as you can to that perfection. No home car or any other system truly sounds the same as being at a symphony but some systems get closer than others. If your system sounds good to you thats great but if your system sounds great to everyone then you are close to having great SQ IMO
peace
Cyberpunky