22 replies to this topic

[>WAYCON<]

Bobby_Digital said:

tell me.. what do you listen for when your in the car? how it sound's or how the coil induction is going??

Surely that was the point the BR was trying to make wasn't it? That both are part of the overall sound that the woofer is going to put out - that you can't have one without the other.
They are contingent on one another and as a result should yield characteristics in keeping with their nature - both in the way it sounds, and in the way that it represents itself in the specs.

Well that is what I understood from his post anyways - and it seems to be a perfectly valid method for me - esepecially where there is no facility to listen to the gear in question (as was my case).

[Blackrazor]

Bobby_Digital said:

So you are telling me...

...coil induction is going??

You missed my point entirely. Noone who reads and understands how the specs work has ever said listening has nothing to do with it. It's a very important part of product choice. Bu what we're saying is that both specs and listening tests have a place in product selection, and an understanding of what to look for in a woofer can narrow down the selection you have to listen to. This applies especially when you CANT listen to the products in question before buying.

However, there is a section of the car audio market who beleive the only thing you can use as a reference point for product is your ears, and that specs are meaningless. And i'm here to politely inform those people, that that view is bullsh!t

Your comment about what i listen to in car. The answer, of course, is music. But to make the best choices, you need to know what CAUSES the music to sound like it does. For instance, you find your woofer isnt responding to transients as quickly as you'd like, its lagging a little, and you want to buy something better at that. What do you do? To use your method would involve listening to every single woofer on the market, in your car, in its ideal box, and making a decision then. But armed with the simple knowledge that lower inductance = better transient response, you can narrow down your choice to 2 or 3 woofers, and then listen to decide your personal choice. THAT is how product selection should work, and all the 'listening tests are all their is' mumbo jumbo is in reality just rhetoric.

[fuddbutter]

but the only thing you can use as a reference IS your ears!!! how else do you listen to music???????????????????

if you cant listen to a speaker for some reason your not trying hard enough, and if there is no possible way to listen to it then try something else. easy huh?


to me it seams like your are telling me that you can know what a speaker will sound like just from it's specs? now thats a pretty damn good party trick if you ask me!

kinda like looking at 2 car's and saying car one has more power yadda yadda than car 2 but car 2 still spank's it's bum on the track? (been many time's a falcon has had more power than the rival commo yet still loose's!)

you can get a average at best idea how a speaker is going to perform but **** the best tool we have is our ears, we use them all day every day and well i dont know how else i can listen to music!

[Blackrazor]

Bobby_Digital said:

but the only thing you can use as a reference IS your ears!!!

Righto, Bobby, answer me this. How do the techs who design and make the speakers decide what to do? Randomly build a million prototypes and then sit down and do extensive listening tests?

Speaker design is a science. Its not magic, there is no pixie dust, and they certainly dont design them by relying on something as changable and erratic as someones sense of hearing.

But again, you completely miss my point. I'm not saying listening tests arent important. I'm saying that certain design choices, which reflect in specifications, cause the speaker to sound better in a certain way. And conversely, when a speaker sounds better in a certain way its, almost without exception, because of an instance of that design choice being made.

Audio gear specifications are like a road map. You dont drive by watching the road map the whole time, thats not the point. You use the road map to help guide you in your driving experience. You still have to drive : reading the road map does not make you a better driver. But it does help you get exactly where you want to go, with a minimum of fuss, while driving down as few sideroads as possible.

Specs do not replace listening tests. They allow you to make informed choices about narrowing down what you SHOULD be listening to. If its purely a case of buying the best gear you have ready access to, then god help those who's only audio store is a Strathys outlet.

[fuddbutter]

Quote

Righto, Bobby, answer me this. How do the techs who design and make the speakers decide what to do? Randomly build a million prototypes and then sit down and do extensive listening tests?

tell me then, why dont ever manafacture just get the dyn spec's and build fantastic speakers? sounds easy enough.....
how many company's do you know that start with the spec's they want and build a speaker around that.
they might start with some bit's (14in xmax, 7in VC etc)

spec's are not like a road map, anyone can pick up a road map and work out were there going.. how many ppl you know that can look at speakers spec's and say "well that speakers is going to sound a little hollow, the female vocal's are going to be a little harsh, the midbass willl be exelent" ?
****ed if i could.
i dont know the spec's, i know basic stuff from living on these forums, but as i said i use my ear's. there alot more acurate than spec's will ever be

[Stooge007]

PM's guys?

- Stooge007 out

[E320Titanium]

Mr_bob has used both subs although the 12" version.

Any one heard from him of late?

He would be the best person to ask.

[Blackrazor]

EDIT : No point arguing, people beleive what they want to Back on topic i spose