28 replies to this topic

[vtviper]

At the moment Im running some Seas lotus 8" drivers in the front doors and Vifa XT25 tweeters in custom pods on the A pillars in my VT commodore. The seas drivers play very high and the Vifas go lowish as well but I do know Im really pushing the tweeters to fade into the Seas drivers properly, so Ive bitten the bullet and decided to go 3 way. Question is, how. Is it better to go with something from Seas to match the woofer or something from Vifa to match the tweeter? Naturally I prefer the vifa option because its cheaper.

Also where to mount the midrange is a question as well. I fear in the doors with the woofers will create too much separation amongst the higher frequencies (minimal tuning ability atm), yet real estate in the pillars is hard to come by as the XT25's are a chunky speaker.

Midrange needs to be strong from 1khz to 4khz, as the woofer plays very high for an 8 and as 4khz the tweeter should be fine to take over.

power will come from a JL 300/4 amplifier, 75wrms into 4 ohms.

[zion187reigneth]

you answered your own questions

[Fury♫]

Vifa don't really have a large range of midranges... they have the TG9 which some have regarded highly, but none come close to the seas excel range.

I'd almost definately go the seas out of those 2 options... but perhaps look at peerless? They make some nice midranges.


In terms of mounting, put them in ur kick panels!

[trism]

definately check out peerless midranges

[~thematt~]

The Seas Excel (with the Mag cone and the bronze phase plug) is one of the best 4" mids I've ever heard in a car.

The 5" Excel, is even better.

Dont worry too much about tonal matching, as with enough tuning, you can get it pretty close. And don't worry about separation, as that can also be overcome with tuning.

[vtviper]

Any idea what to look for or at? Frequency graphs tell me how how smooth they are but colouration and making sure they match my current setup might be an issue.

In regards to kickpanel mounting, will that work alright with the tweeters in the A pillars? I like the high sound stage they create so I dont really want to move them. Could I mount them next to the woofers in the door? (in a sealed enclosure)?

[Luke352]

Might I suggest these, look great for 3 way front end, lovely smooth and broad response and quite good 30deg off axis performace.

http://www.madisound...less/830870.pdf

[vtviper]

Yeah Ive read some good recommendations for those peerless drivers (specifically the HDS series) and for the price they're currently what I'm looking at. They wont get their recommended power (being 8 ohm) but as theyre just handingly midrange duties I can't see that being a huge problem. Mainly concern is where to mount them.

Hoping the doors near the woofers will work out okay as thats where the most space is right now, kickpanels are doable and its something I'll trial once eventually.

[Damo95]

midranges can work best in the kick panel, with midbass in door..

[Matt VIP]

can anyone point me to some reviews for the Excel and Peerless HDS midranges listed here?

they're currently on my purchase list for the very near future...

[s4turn]

Yeah lots of people recommending the HDS mids, only thing is the 4" is quite hard to get now?

[muzzy66]

As with the other suggestions made here, I would look at Peerless. Midrange performance is one of their greatest assets, and their drivers are very well behaved right out of the box, so they will work well with pretty much any tweeter with minimal effort.

The Seas Excel magnesiums have a brilliant reputation, but they are known to be a little rough around the edges out of the box. Typically, they need some significant tuning to really get them sounding great and such a degree of tuning may prove difficult to aquire depending on what type of processing you have available. I'd suggest going for something that's a little more mild to begin with, and saving your precious EQ for the areas that it's most needed

I'd check out the Peerless PPB 4" as last time i checked that was about the only HDS series 4" that was available. Great performance and exceptionally cheap and it should sound brilliant straight out of the box, with little or maybe even no need for EQ.

As for Vifa, their mids aren't bad but are no match for the Peerless HDS range. The Peerless perform briliantly and are extremely cheap - they are a legitimate cut above most car audio mids costing up to and boyond twice the price.

Sure you want your midbass playing so high though? I'd probably try to cross it down around 400hz at most just to keep tunin easier, although it's up to you.

Edited by muzzy66, 12 March 2008 - 07:22 PM.

[vtviper]

It will depend on how capable the peerless midranges are as to how low I'll cross them, as theyre 8ohm theyll get roughly around 40rms whereas the other drivers are getting nearly double that (although 40wrms for a midrange should be plenty). The 8" midbass's have been coping quite admirably with midrange duties to date but naturally they arent designed for it so trial&error when deciding an ideal crossover point is the way to go I think.

Been using a CD (120mm OD) to check out possible mounting locations for the 4" midranges, directly above the midbass in the door would look really trick and be about seat level. The kick panels would also easily accept them although theyre very low and Im concerned about them getting muddled and being too far from the tweeters (although with kick panel mounting path-length differences would be better than with above midbass mounting).

My tuning ability is very limited to amp crossover and my headunit's (IVA-w200e alpine) onboard EQ, which is useless for midrange tuning (only bass and treble frequency ranges). A pxa-h701 would be great but $$$.

[~thematt~]

You'd be surprised at what the Seas Lotus 8's are designed for. They can spin off midrange duties quite well indeed.

The reason why the Seas tends to 'require more effort' in installation is due to the breakup nodes from the hard cones. Many people tend to Xover the units too high, or on a too-gradual slope, so that the breakup becomes audible. Its actually quite nasty, but if you keep the audible range away from these points, you'll do fine.

Tagging with your Seas, IMO the Seas midrange will be your best bet. You'd be surprised how similar they sound (especially if you like your current tonal quality) and yet the Seas 4" does it so much better. Also means you can let the 8" do what it does best, and thats restart your heart with that nasty kick.

The Vifa tweet is quite open, and would blend with a Seas mid just as easily as a Peerless, but the Peerless midrange is a poly unit, and will sound unusual to your ears when you get it in. You'd almost be spending a lot of your time trying to tune it out, and get it sounding more akin to what you're used to.

The Vifa mid on the other hand, requires a lot of effort, but is ridiculously cheap. I've never heard nice results from a Vifa mid though.

Dont worry about perception of height when installing in the kicks. Head Related Transfer Functions and head shadowing, as well as the precedence effect, will still enable you to maintain good stage height. Just make sure you dont install them in the doors. Its a waste to all midranges when they are poorly installed like that.

Edited by ~thematt~, 12 March 2008 - 09:11 PM.

[DG Phil]

Scan have a nice 4" that I've used, around $200ea if memory serves.

I'll dig up the part # if you like.

Phil

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