34 replies to this topic

[LongGone]

Hectic, Freeway, Geelong Car Sound, Stylyn are all dealers.

[muzzy66]

DD Phil, on Jun 24 2005, 12:06 AM, said:

RnB = SQ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why not

Some of the most nicely and cleanly recorded vocals i've heard have been on RnB CD's. Babyface, Ashanti, Joe, Ciara etc.

Remember, rnb doesn't always mean 50cent and and tupac

In fact, I have a Fabolous album which is rap, and has some extremely crisply recorded songs on there. Most of the tracks I use for sound quality comparisons are rnb/hiphop, while a great deal are also rock/alternative.

I know classical is supposed to be good for sound quality testing, but it's just not my thing

[DG Phil]

muzzy66, on Jul 25 2005, 03:19 PM, said:

Why not

Some of the most nicely and cleanly recorded vocals i've heard have been on RnB CD's.  Babyface, Ashanti, Joe, Ciara etc.

Remember, rnb doesn't always mean 50cent and and tupac

In fact, I have a Fabolous album which is rap, and has some extremely crisply recorded songs on there.  Most of the tracks I use for sound quality comparisons are rnb/hiphop, while a great deal are also rock/alternative.

I know classical is supposed to be good for sound quality testing, but it's just not my thing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not just about "crispness".

This is what I find strange, a lot of alleged "SQ Boys" really don't understand the meaning of true SQ.

It's really all about imaging and staging. A sound stage is reproduced when your brain measures the difference in arrival time of sounds to your left and right ears, producing a 3D sonic sound-scape in your mind. This complex ability evolved from our need to hear, locate and avoid predators. Don’t you just love evolution? 

In a well recorded SQ track you can pinpoint the location of each instrument / performer in 3D.

These extraordinary recordings are made by using minimalist mic techniques and no mixing. Two mics are set up, left and right, and the music is laid down in it’s most pure form. Really good recordings list the type of microphones, recorder and even the cables used in the recording process. You hear everything, including the subtle reflections of the room.

Now back to "commercially" recorded music. Each part is laid down on a separately and "mixed" to generate the final track. Often the singer and instruments are never even in the same building at the same time.

The engineer varies the level of each track from left to right in order to create his sound-scape.

Level and arrival time are two totally different things to the brain. Varying the left to right level (ie balance) gives the limited impression of location in 2D (left to right) but doesn't generate a 3D sound-scape.

So a good commercial recording can sound clean and wide, it will never reproduce the intricacy of a 3D high end audiophile recording.

This is why I posed the question "R&B is SQ????"

Phil

Edited by DD Phil, 27 July 2005 - 07:12 AM.

[muzzy66]

DD Phil, on Jul 26 2005, 09:09 PM, said:

It's not just about "crispness".

This is what I find strange, a lot of alleged "SQ Boys" really don't understand the meaning of true SQ.

It's really all about imaging and staging. A sound stage is reproduced when your brain measures the difference in arrival time of sounds to your left and right ears, producing a 3D sonic sound-scape in your mind. This complex ability evolved from our need to hear, locate  and avoid predators. Don’t you just love evolution? 

In a well recorded SQ track you can pinpoint the location of each instrument / performer in 3D.

These extraordinary recordings are made by using minimalist mic techniques and no mixing. Two mics are set up, left and right, and the music is laid down in it’s most pure form. Really good recordings list the type of microphones, recorder and even the cables used in the recording process. You hear everything, including the subtle reflections of the room.

Now back to "commercially" recorded music. Each part is laid down on a separately and "mixed" to generate the final track. Often the singer and instruments are never even in the same building at the same time.

The engineer varies the level of each track from left to right in order to create his sound-scape.

Level and arrival time are two totally different things to the brain. Varying the left to right level (ie balance) gives the limited impression of location in 2D (left to right) but doesn't generate a 3D sound-scape.

So a good commercial recording can sound clean and wide, it will never reproduce the intricacy of a 3D high end audiophile recording.

This is why I posed the question "R&B is SQ????"

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

umm.. you obviously failed to listen to what i said. RnB doesnt mean hiphop, 50 cent and tupac

Alot of slow balad-ic (if thats a word) rnb recordings in clude alot of instruments, background singers, different vocalists, etc. Good rnb artists are amoung the best around when it comes to harmonising.

If youve ever listened to any Boyz II Men tracks, youll see that each of the four singers all have very very different voices, and yet when they harmonise they do an amazing job of bringing everything together into one single smooth verse. This is a trait of many rnb groups.

When you can listen to music like this with such harmony amoungst the different singers, and pick out all of the voices indivudually that are singing at any given point, the different instruments, etc, then I cant see how this fails to meet you 'set in stone' definition of sound quality.

Just because you arent a fan of something, or dont understand a certain genre of music, does't mean that it isn't just as good for 'sound quality' as any others...

If i can listen to a track, and hear excellent detail in vocals, instruments and staging then I consider that a good sound quality track. Maybe it's not a PERFECT sound quality track.. sorry i didnt realise anything that isnt perfect is bad quality...

According to your theory, IMO, all movies made in holywood without exception are poor sound and visual quality, because they are all cut, edited etc. While a dodgy home video recorded on a handycam is outstanding quality, because it's all recorded in one place, at one time, on one camera...

I belive 'sound quality' is too an extent subjective.

Perhaps rnb will never "reproduce the intricacy of a 3D high end audiophile recording".. no one said it did. This doesn't mean its 'bad sound quality' music.

By the way, you didn't just say that rnb isnt 'pure audiophille music' you seemed to suggest that there is no point in setting up a good 'sound quality' system if you are going to listen to rnb, because it's just 'poor sound quality' music... or so it seems? Please correct me if im wrong but thats how it came out to my eyes...

Edited by muzzy66, 30 July 2005 - 07:21 PM.

[DG Phil]

I'm not talking about the artist or the performance quality, rather the fundamental difference in the way a commercial and "audiophile" recording is created.

On a truly great system you can really appreciate these nuances.

Phil