62 replies to this topic

[N15TURBO]

ok i have spoken to a few people but now have to pull my finger out and get it done
I am hoping to afford within a few months when tax comes in.
I will have my behringer DCX2496 running by then as i am waiting on the power supply can cables running from an alpine IVA-W202E
I will be installing my self into a 1998 nissan pulsar Q into the kicks
HAT L1 into the dash like Damo95
And the Peerless SLS8" into the doors.
Most prices are from madi sound and ill get em just a little more then that in aus delivered from work

Now i am sure there are some more...i only really wanna speak under 150 each. but they will cover most of the frequency range(300hz-6k)

Here are my choices

Scanspeak 12m/4631G
$285 each 4.5"

TECHNICAL DATA:
Sensitivity 2.83V/1M 89dB
Free air resonance Fs 75 Hz
DC resistance 3.2 W
V.C. inductance 0.22 mH
Power 40W
Effective cone area 49 cm2
V.C. diameter 38 mm
V.C. height -
Air gap height -

Lin. & max. excursion ±3/ ±7 mm
Air gap flux density -
BL 5.3 Tm
Moving mass incl. air 6.5 g
Net weight 0.51 kg

Outside diameter: 115.5mm
Cut out: 92mm
Depth: 48.4mm
25.4mm = 1" = 2.54cm

Scanspeak 15m/4531K
$222 each 5.5"
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=1479

TECHNICAL DATA:
Sensitivity 2.83V/1M 90 dB
Free air resonance Fs 35 Hz
DC resistance 3.5 ohm
V.C. inductance 0.17 mH
Power 12dB@Hz 60W
Effective cone area 95 cm2
V.C. diameter 38 mm
V.C. height
Air gap height -

Lin. & max. excursion ±3 & ±8mm
Air gap flux density -
Force factor BL Product 6.0 Tm
Moving mass incl. air 11 g
Net weight 1.6 kg
Vas 24 ltrs
Qms 4.8
Qes 0.24
Qts 0.22

Peerless PPB 830860
~$50 5.25"
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=1608

Peerless 5.25"
Polypropylene cone
Rubber surround
Cast Frame - truncated
Ventilated raised spider
Shorting rings
152mm flange
134mm truncated
120mm cut out
61.5mm depth

Znom 8 ohm
Re 5.7 ohm
Le 0.6 mH
fs 56.1 Hz
Qms 2.41
Qes 0.50
Qts 0.41
Mms 8.1 g
Cms 0.99 mm/N
Sd 88 cm2
BL 5.7 N/A
Vas 10.6 ltrs
Xmax 3.5 mm peak
Voice Coil Ø 26 mm
Sensitivity
2.83V / 1m 88.3 dB
Power (IEC) W
Magnet weight 0.4 kg

Suggested box alignments:
Sealed box of 5.5 liters (0.2cf); F3 of 95Hz
Vented box of 8 liters (0.28cf); F3 of 60Hz; 1.5" vent by 4.25" long

Seas Excel W12Cy-001
$175 4.5"
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...products_id=780
utside diameter 120.4mm
Cut out 95.8mm
Depth 58.5mm
25.4mm = 1" = 2.54cm

Nominal Impedance 8 Ohms
Recom. frequency range 60-3500 Hz
Short term max. power 200 W
Long term max. power 70 W
Sensitivity (1W/1m) 85 dB

Voice Coil Diameter 26 mm
Voice coil height 12 mm
Air gap height 6.0 mm
Linear coil travel (p-p) 6.0 mm
Max. coil travel (p-p) 9 mm
Magnet weight 0.42 Kg
Total weight 1.21 Kg
Voice coil resistance 5.6 Ohms
Voice coil inductance 0.3 mH
Force factor 5.6 N/A
Free air resonance 46 Hz
Moving mass 7.0 g
Suspension compliance 1.7 mm/N
Suspension mech. resistance 1.0 Ns/m
Effective piston area 50 sq. cm

Vas 5.8 Liters
Qms 2.2
Qes 0.37

[~thematt~]

No question, the SS 15M. Better motor then the 12M (also has faraday rings which the 12M doesnt, resulting in lower distortion levels), larger frequency range then the Seas with a lower audible breakup node (you cant crossover the SEAS high enough to mate with the Legatia. That alone is a show stopper), and better distortion and linearity characteristics then the Peerless.

Its more expensive, but thats for a reason. Scanspeak Rev's are at the pinnacle of driver development. The larger driver is also more dynamic then the smaller 4.5".

[muzzy66]

I'm actually going to take a plunge and take a different recommendation.

If you are looking for a dedicated midrange, I'd go the Peerless 830870 now that the Nomex and HDS versions are no longer available.

I used the Revelators in my past system (the 7") and they are very good, but there is some peakiness in the upper midrange (1k - 3k). It's not massive, but after listening to them for long enough you WILL hear it. Because it's right around the potential crossover point, it's also very difficult to offset with EQ. They are a bloody brilliant all round driver, but that midrange peak was their one real flaw, and it did hold me back a little with my last install.

Even though you are looking at the smalller versions of the driver, I have also checked the response data on those models (I considered them myself). They have similar issues at similar points in the frequency range, so I can say with 99% confidence that you will have the same problem. Whether you will hear it or not depends on your experience, but I'm certain it will be there. Don't get me wrong, they will still sound like absolute gold compared to pretty much any car audio driver, but the peak will likely still be quite noticable. If anything, you could almost say it stands out even more because they sound so good everywhere else.

I decided to go with the Peerless this time around for midrange duties because they have cleaner, less peaky response all-round, and are almost dead flat right up to about 3khz-4khz.

They may not be quite as good distortion wise, but from the tests i've seen they are very close. The biggest advantages to the Revelators were in the bottom end (the 7" played with low distortion down to 40hz). I can estimate with very high confidence that you would hear the peak in the midrange long before you'll hear the difference in distortion in the midrange.

If you were looking for a 2-way midbass driver that needs to play midrange and midbass i'd probably go the Revelator, as it's bottom end is definately much better. However, as a dedicated midrange I would go for the Peerless, even if price were a non factor. Once you do bring price into the equation, the fact that it's about 1/3 the price cements the deal.

Edited by muzzy66, 25 June 2008 - 12:22 AM.

[N15TURBO]

my dcx will kill the peak muzzy.....it has a limiter in it so if it does peak ill just bang it back down......

[muzzy66]

Hmm, different story then! Aside from that one issues, the Revelators are practically flawless.

If you can straighten out that one peak effectively, then I'd say the Scans would be the way to go.



P.s.

That DCX looks like a useful device! How much would you be looking at for one of those babies?? Would come in hand for the home system in the future!!

Edited by muzzy66, 25 June 2008 - 12:31 AM.

[N15TURBO]

ok ill let a few other people tell me what they think
I can get them from work. Its just a PA crossover with built in limiter/eq/and a few other things

Ill be using one for my home setup when i can afford that
But you need 2 of them for 3way fronts + sub/rear 5.1


And i hope it will kill the peak....if not ill bang in a pxah701 or another behringer EQ on the scans and it will take car of that

[Luke352]

Have you also considered in place of a larger driver, running two smaller drivers per kick in an array of sorts, this would be handy if you have more room in one direction then the other.

Something like the VIFA TG9, quite good performance from reports and very popular in Europe with the competitors over there, 4 ohm version http://www.tymphany.com/tg9fd-10-04-0

8 ohm version Madisound lists. http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=8404

Klippel test for rebadged Trius version http://www.diymobile...hread.php?t=641

HAT L3 for comparison http://www.diymobile...read.php?t=2969

Comparison http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/showth...;highlight=vifa

[muzzy66]

Not sure how the unit you have works, but the H701 will struggle to take out the peak cleanly because of two things:
1 - The shape of the peak
2 - The location of the peak (right around the speakers' optimal crossover point)

I was formerly using a HX-D2 when running the Revelators. Even with an EQ as good as the Clarion's (only 5 bands, but the best range of Q adjustment I've ever seen on a car processor) I wasn't able to properly flatten out the peak. To do so, you need to dedicate 2 -3 Parametric EQ bands to that one peak, and even then you need to use Q values that even the HX-D2 didnt have (it has a range of 0.5 - 12 in increments of 0.5). From memory I needed some crazy Q values like 16, or something like that to be able to match up the frequency range correctly and eliimnate the peak entirely.

I had mine 30 deg off axis, and at this angle the peak maxes out at only around 3dB, but even at these relativley modest levels it's hard to bring it down without negatively affecting something around it, or brining down the lower tweeter frequencies with it.

Initially it 'looked' like an easy peak to remove, but it was not at all. Not that I understand how Q values work and how to calculate them, I've come to realise just how important they are - you don't know whether you can eliminate a driver peak unless you know what Q values and centre frequency values you need, and what ones you have available.

This is why this time around, I decided to take the easier path and just get the Peerless mids, which are impressively flat right out of the box, with no significant peaks or dips.

[N15TURBO]

Mmmm. Alot to think about.
I have this 2inch thick cataloge of speakers(SS/Vifa/Peerless) and all different sorts of stuff from www.wes.net.au
i can get the peerless830870 for 72.50 each +9 postage

I like the look of the peerless hds woofer/mid. i think it will blend in my system well and is alot cheaper.....
from what you have said muzzy the scan will be a pain to tune

[Luke352]

keepitreal07, on Jun 27 2008, 08:53 PM, said:

I like the look of the peerless hds woofer/mid. i think it will blend in my system well and is alot cheaper.....
from what you have said muzzy the scan will be a pain to tune

The thing to remember about response curves is no matter how great they may look, once you place the driver in a car it's the cars freq response that will dominate, your not fighting the driver with EQ your fighting your cars response, it may have been a case that the Scan combined with the natural acoustics of Muzzy's car made the peak incredibly difficult to remove, you may find in your car that it does half the job of removing the peak due to it's natural response.

Luke

[N15TURBO]

tru but the price tag of 500+ for a pair compared to 150 is a big difference......but at the end of the day i wanna build a very nice car....but i not think i can fit a 5.5" driveer in my kicks..

At the moment i have the focal 100kp an tweeter down there....but the focal 4" aint very deep. only 38 or so mm

[~thematt~]

You wont have that much problem putting the 5.5" down there.

Plus, IIRC, Muzzy never ran the driver you are talking about. He used the 7". Different acoustic response in a different environment.

I wouldnt recommend drivers to you Matt, if I didn't think they were worthy.

The midrange is the most important part in an entire sound system. Spending money wisely on it, is more important then your subs/tweeters/midbass and even amps.

Edited by ~thematt~, 28 June 2008 - 02:49 PM.

[N15TURBO]

ill chat to you on sunday about it all matt.

ill bring the cataloge with me

and you mean its the most important part. not car

[Luke352]

A pair of TG9's per kick I tell ya, LOL.

[N15TURBO]

mm alot to think about.