62 replies to this topic

[N15TURBO]

sorry bmw turbo..,..had a look at cataloge...looks like sheilded only

[BMWTurbo]

Cheers keeoitreal07, I came to the same conclusion after DL'ing the sectoin and flicknig back through all the 'inserts' WES had sent.

Would debucking the sheild bring the response back in line with that of the non-sheilded driver?

I'm chasing the non-sheilded due to the reduced mounting depth and magnet diameter and also the smoother response of the NS driver.

Edited by BMWTurbo, 30 June 2008 - 10:51 PM.

[Luke352]

Maybe ring up WES and check, because I'm sure I've seen the unshielded version in one of there paper catalogues, yet I can't see it in the online one, which is actually from about 2004 or earlier so it may not be in there, if not just order from madisound, there apparently great to deal with and last time I looked into it pricing worked out to be almost the same taking shipping into consideration.

Another mid worth looking at on a budget is http://www.madisound.../PDF/830986.pdf but smaller cone area and less xmax then the tg9.

[BMWTurbo]

Cheers Luke. Last delivery pricibng I had from Madisound for a pair of Aura's was $35 US.

Almost cheaper to get them locally if I can.. roughly $95US inc postage.

It appears WES do sell the non-shielded

Edited by BMWTurbo, 01 July 2008 - 04:35 PM.

[BMWTurbo]

Should have some NS3-193-8a's on the thier way to me next week sometime, will have a play with them and see if I can get what I'm hoping from them before purchasing some 'better' drivers.

[Luke352]

Bit late for you Ben, but here's a new review.

http://www.diymobile...ead.php?t=41582

[BMWTurbo]

Cheers Luke.

The peerless seem to get a decent wrap from the reviewer. I couldn't pass up the NS3's at the offered price, so will have a bit of a poke around with them to see if I can mount them neatly and if I'm likely to get the response that I want from them.

[N15TURBO]

who make ns3

[BMWTurbo]

Aurasound make the NS3.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/auras.../NS3-193-8A.pdf

Zaph Audio have tested it against some other drivers also.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/smalltest/

[muzzy66]

Luke352, on Jun 27 2008, 10:49 PM, said:

The thing to remember about response curves is no matter how great they may look, once you place the driver in a car it's the cars freq response that will dominate, your not fighting the driver with EQ your fighting your cars response, it may have been a case that the Scan combined with the natural acoustics of Muzzy's car made the peak incredibly difficult to remove, you may find in your car that it does half the job of removing the peak due to it's natural response.

There were two significant response issues in my car. One was a peak in the upper midbass (200-250hz), which was a result of the scans being in too small a volume. The other was up around 1.5k-2.5k and was a result of the Revelator's natural frequency response characteristics.

I'd debate the degree of impact a car interior has on frequency response. In every system i've built so far, the frequency response of the system as a whole has been a near perfect reflection of (a combination of) the responses of the individual drivers.

I've yet to build a system where the car environment itself has audibly introduced or eliminated any significant response issues. The only exception is when people do things like mount drivers in doors, which tends toc ause all kinda of nasty problems - but then again pouring orange jiuce into a tissue-paper carton wouldn't work too well either. For any system that's carefully and suitably installed, my rule of thumb is this:

"if it's in the speaker, it will be in the system."

~thematt~, on Jun 28 2008, 01:53 AM, said:

Plus, IIRC, Muzzy never ran the driver you are talking about. He used the 7". Different acoustic response in a different environment.

The midrange is the most important part in an entire sound system. Spending money wisely on it, is more important then your subs/tweeters/midbass and even amps.

You're correct

However, the 5.5" and 7" Revelators have an almost identical frequency response curve. It's practically the same response shifted up a quarter of an octave. Granted, the peak on the 5.5" is very slightly slightly less sharp then that of the 7", but still I'd be willing to bet that side by side you'd be hard pressed to hear a difference between the two drivers.

Here's the two Revelator responses' compared (note the peak around 1k - 2.5k that I was referring to):




A similar comparison between the 4" (Poly) and 6.5" (Nomex) HDS mids. Note the lack of significant response fluctuations, and the overall smoothness of the curve compared with the Revelators:




And now the curve for Focal K2P drivers - the only car audio drivers I found (in listening tests) that even came close to the HDS and Revelators. The 6K2P surprised me - they really are nice drivers!





For midbass purposes, there is absolutely no doubt that the Revelators would will eat the similar sized HDS drivers alive. For use as a dedicated midrange driver though, I would (and did) go with the Peerless HDS over the Revelator, even if price wasn't a factor. Even my brothers' 7" HDS Exclusives sounded more neutral in the midrange then the Revelators, and the response of the 4" HDS is flatter then even them. The 4" HDS Exclusive would be an absolute godsend, but you need to find one first!

I'd also beg to differ on the concept of the midrange being the most important part of a sound system. In my opinion a sound system is just that - a system. It's a series of components that all work together to achieve a goal (in this case, good sound). If any one of those components is flawed, then it will being your system down.

If you as me, a system with great mids and crap tweeters will sound just as bad as a system with crappy mids and great tweeters. Then again, a system with poor sub-bass or mid-bass canaffect the sound in a way that makes everything sound bad. When it comes to system design, I belive you can't let anything go.

As for price vs quality, the Revelators cost over $500 and Rainbow Platinum mids were well over a grand last time I checked. I would (and did) choose $200 Peerless mids over both of them. Looking at my sig, if I won the lottery tomorrow every component would change except the mids. In fact at this price, I feel like buying another three pairs of them just in case they go out of production like the rest of the HDS line! Expensive or not, sometimes all of the technology in the world can't substitute for straight out good sound!

jas, on Jun 30 2008, 01:49 AM, said:

due to the frequency response graph of the 15M scanspeak it will never sound bad in a car even when badly installed. With a design like this it is a very forgiving midrange driver. If you require a dynamic sound then these may not be for you, i would recommend the seas excell drivers and a lot of eqing to get them right which means a hell of a lot of testing using notch filtering and high order slopes.

I don't know about that...any speaker will sound bad if badly installed, if you ask me. A perfect sub would sound like a dog in the wrong box, a perfect midrange will sound poo if playing the wrong frequencies, and a perfect tweeter will sound like ass if pushed too far into distortion by crossing too low. Distortion is always a factor.

It's possible I may have misunderstood you?

Edited by muzzy66, 04 July 2008 - 01:38 AM.

[N15TURBO]

and all i asked was wat midrange i should do and muzzy writes an essay on it

thank u everyone on there input.
but at the end of the day it depends on how much cash i wanna spend. remember i am installing it myself.

[muzzy66]

Haha yeah, Mr Essay is what they used to call me around the place!

I hope something I've written has helped you in some way or other

Good luck with the install!

[BMWTurbo]

I'm getting odd response dips at 400 hz in my car Muzzy. This is soley due to the driver location in the kick panels.

I've done measurements directly on axis with the driver in the footwell towards the trans tunnel and have almost flat response, move the mic up to where the listener is and I have a 400hz dip that I can only correct with hefty addition of EQ at this band.

This is soley due to the location inside the vehicle.

[N15TURBO]

what are ya midbass goin up to etc
wat have u already got
how much power does it have

an muzzy yea u have helped a huge ammount....i still undecided.
i have to do my midbass totall off axis....firing straight off the door...

look at my install thread to see
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...mp;#entry976579

[BMWTurbo]

I have Morel 8's in the kick panels, vertical firing flat across the car, they are fed 85WRMS clean power from an Eclipse PA5422. Playing from 63hz 24dB high pass to 1250hz 24dB low pass.

I have more then enough level with plenty of headroom at 'normal' listening levels. I've heard of a fair few other people that have dips in the 400hz region due to the mounting locations of the vehicle. It has been shown that in vehicle response due to speaker locations can vary between different vehicles however.
The easiest way to find your vehicle affected response is to measure with an RTA or the like in front of the drivers and compare to the listening position.