12 replies to this topic

[bsyde]

I have been trying to train my ears latley to not only hear music but listen to it. Now i have some Sennheiser HD-25 headphones, very good headphones for those who dont know them. I have been listening to music i dont normally, 70's-80's rock etc. Tonally the headphones are balanced through all the range , well maybe not all the wat down to bottom end, but as far as headphones go they do a decent job. I have been listening for stagging which i can hear quite easily Kick in the middle. snare off to the side a little, the right usually i think. Different guitars off to either side etc. singer in the middle etc But the music is in my head right between the eyes, not out in front where should be.

Is ths due to there not being reflections of other surfaces, Just straight into my ear? The reason i ask is cause i have read so much about trying to stop reflectionswith dash mats etc. Am i on the right track that you need some reflections to get depth to the stage? Probably width to?

Let me know people, thanx

Bsyde

Edited by bsyde, 14 August 2008 - 10:18 PM.

[~thematt~]

You need crosstalk. And you dont get that with headphones.

Crosstalk is basically the sound of the left channel bleeding into the right ear, and vice versa.

[bsyde]

Yeah that makes sense, do reflections play a part aswell

[~thematt~]

No, not in the way you're thinking. Reflections only have a positive influence when the reproduction space is the same size as the recording space.

They can, however, contribute to screwing things royally for you.

[icacha]

bsyde, on Aug 14 2008, 10:03 PM, said:

Am i on the right track that you need some reflections to get depth to the stage? Probably width to?

Let me know people, thanx

Bsyde

Depth, width & height you will get with the 'correct' placement/angling of the midrange driver, this is where the majority of your information (cues) is coming from...

Not to forget the tweeter also plays a very important part in this

[Matt VIP]

icacha, on Aug 14 2008, 11:01 PM, said:

Depth, width & height you will get with the 'correct' placement/angling of the midrange driver, this is where the majority of your information (cues) is coming from...

Not to forget the tweeter also plays a very important part in this

i didnt know headphones HAD mirange drivers...i thought they were full range...



as it is, I'm sure the OP's stage height is probably at...say...eye level...

oh yeah.

have a search for "binaural recording" in the open discussion section if you want stage depth, width and height via your headphones..



ooh looksy.

here it is

http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...amp;hl=binaural

[icacha]

Matt, I've been sitting here thinking... WTF are some people taking... I replied to a question that had nothing to do with car audio, I really must need sleep...

SQ (section), headphones (not car audio), mobile electonics forum (I sort of guess you could call headphones 'mobile electronics' to a certain extent)...

I replied as it would be about car audio, wouldn't a headphone question be started in the...






























































somewhere over there section???

i'm off to bed, stuff this sh!t LOL im rooted haha

Edited by icacha, 15 August 2008 - 12:06 AM.

[Matt VIP]

awww....poor george...

always remember the mantra

"sleep first, help the n00bs later"



You might want to pass that pearl on to Shiny Car too...

[muzzy66]

Georgie is correct in this case - he was actually referring to car installs when he asked if reflections helped with stage depth.

The mention of his headphone listening seemed to be more of the inspiration behind asking the question.

Or at least this is how I understood it!

[syd-monster]

bsyde, on Aug 14 2008, 10:03 PM, said:

I have been trying to train my ears latley to not only hear music but listen to it. Now i have some Sennheiser HD-25 headphones, very good headphones for those who dont know them. I have been listening to music i dont normally, 70's-80's rock etc. Tonally the headphones are balanced through all the range , well maybe not all the wat down to bottom end, but as far as headphones go they do a decent job. I have been listening for stagging which i can hear quite easily Kick in the middle. snare off to the side a little, the right usually i think. Different guitars off to either side etc. singer in the middle etc But the music is in my head right between the eyes, not out in front where should be.
Is ths due to there not being reflections of other surfaces, Just straight into my ear? The reason i ask is cause i have read so much about trying to stop reflectionswith dash mats etc. Am i on the right track that you need some reflections to get depth to the stage? Probably width to?
Let me know people, thanx
Bsyde

I too use headphones, but not so much for staging (in any direction). I use it more to learn the finer details of the music that is missed in the noisy unregulated environment of the car's interior.
One thing that has worked well for me is to listen to a CD, first through my Hi-Fi, in a quiet setting. In particular, I have the two speakers as far apart as possible and aleast 0.5m (500cm) away from walls/solid objects. Then I place my comfiest lounge chair and sit right in the sweet spot. (you may have to move the chair around until you find it). Listen for staging on particular tracks ie, were is the singer, were is the guitars, bass etc.. This is were you also need to liston for depth and height.
Then the same CD, using headphones, but I listen for details, something I may have missed with the Hi-Fi. Im not longer looking to spot height or stagging, but the little details such as accent on voice, and impact of instruments, plus timing of it all.
... then I take that same CD and listen to it in the car and compare/contrast. See what the car's stereo does well compared to the Hi-Fi and headphones, or were it needs to improve.
Hope that helps.

[bsyde]

Muzzy you are correct in saying that my question that although i reffered to headphones, it was about the effect of reflections in a car audio stage depth.
Just a side note i would not consider myself a noob in car audio as put by Matt VIP, I have been in and around the industry for many years just not in the SQ side of things but now i have decided to try and take a different direction and to learn this side of things.

[icacha]

Then welcome to the bright (i.e. smart) side of car audio where people actually get to enjoy what they listen to other than burp... *excuse me... burp hahahahaha

[Pulse-R]

now now gents - topics are there for a reason

Binaural, or "Dummy head" recordings are all over the place.

the way stereo is replayed, is to have the speakers out in front of you. the way Binaural is replayed is to have the speakers next to your ears.