67 replies to this topic

[flyinwrx]

Hey Guys,

I am after a set of tweeters to compliment my Hertz Mille 165 splits. I am currently using the tweeters that came with the speaker set, but am looking for something different as I find these quite harsh.

What I need is something that retains the high sound quality and detail, but sounds very smooth on the ears so that I don't need to compensate by adjusting the EQ when listening to music like Metallica.

I've heard some Scanspeak D2904-600000 tweeters which sounded wonderful, so something along those lines I suppose. Just a little cheaper!

Thanks in advance.

Edited by flyinwrx, 10 March 2009 - 08:23 AM.

[Matt VIP]

I've heard the scanspeak aircirc tweeters in Muzzy's car, and was absolutely blown away. AFAIK they can be had for about $4-600 for the pair?

[~Spyne~]

i assume you're running active, otherwise mixing different tweeters using the stock crossover could = fail

as suggested, the air-circs that muzzy uses are very, very good, but pretty pricey
others to consider would be
vifa xt25 (cheap, pretty darn good above 2.5-3.0khz),
hiquphon owI/owII (fantastic distortion and frequency response),
usher 9950c (have only heard good things),
morel mdt-33 (similar price to the scans i think, but very good perormers),
peerless 810921 (cheap, but similar performance to the hiqs),
eton 25sd-1,
crescendo t3r

Edited by ~Spyne~, 10 March 2009 - 09:26 AM.

[br85]

If you like listening to metallica, steer clear of the hiq's unless you've got a nice eq. The OW1's have a peak around 3.5k which accentuates the details a bit much, especially given metallica's love for that frequency range (most prominent in justice, garageinc, and death magnetic). Other metal isn't going to sound great either on the hiq's unless, again, you've got some ability to tame that peak, which actually is rather desirable on other kinds of music.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Xt25's or peerless HDS. Stick them up in the corners of your apillars where they meet your dash and windscreen, cross low-ish (2-2.5k), a little eq to smooth the response and you should be laughing. Seas neo might work well too.

[flyinwrx]

The Vifa's look the goods at a pretty reasonable price!

Will it be possible to run these in passive configuration with some hertz mille mlk165 woofers/crossovers?

[~Spyne~]

interesting br85....perhaps it was the installation that caused the peak you speak of...?

these all look like pretty flat curves to me;
http://www.hiquphon.dk/page4.html
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/Hiqupho...20vs%20OW4.html
http://www.diyaudio....ad/t-74104.html


flyinwrx > you will need to check what the impedance of the original hertz tweeter is and what the impedance of the vifa is. also the crossover point. there are quite a few comments around the net regarding the xt25, with many suggesting it isnt fantastic when playing below 2.5khz - yes it has a very low Fs, but using the old 'crossover at 2xFs' rule doesnt seem to work that well for this tweeter (eg. link)

Edited by ~Spyne~, 10 March 2009 - 10:34 AM.

[br85]

~Spyne~, on Mar 10 2009, 10:24 AM, said:

interesting br85....perhaps it was the installation that caused the peak you speak of...?

these all look like pretty flat curves to me;
http://www.hiquphon.dk/page4.html
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/Hiqupho...20vs%20OW4.html
http://www.diyaudio....ad/t-74104.html

oops my bad, I meant the popular OW4 has the peak, commonly referred to by hiq users as "hyper detail". The OW1 is a much better tweeter FR wise, but it needs to be crossed higher.

Quote

flyinwrx > you will need to check what the impedance of the original hertz tweeter is and what the impedance of the vifa is. also the crossover point. there are quite a few comments around the net regarding the xt25, with many suggesting it isnt fantastic when playing below 2.5khz - yes it has a very low Fs, but using the old 'crossover at 2xFs' rule doesnt seem to work that well for this tweeter (eg. link)

I too have heard the "don't cross the Xt25 too low" usually suggesting a 2.5k or higher point. 2k should be fine if you're using LR24 or steeper, you're not going to encounter any excursion or major harmonic distortion at that setting if you want to keep your hearing, especially with a dash install. Anyways a waveguide with the correct filter should let you cross over as low as 1.6k (correct filter meaning, cut HEAPS of the "loaded" frequencies out, we might be talking -12db at 1.6k and -9db at 2k etc, should keep the tweeter happy). Free acoustic sensitivity rocks. I'm pretty sure the timepiece speakers by sp tech originally used Xt25's in their waveguides and crossed them at LR24 600 hz!!!!!!!

[br85]

Does your hertz spec sheet tell you where the tweeter crossover is at?

Anyway, regardless, if you ever get the money/time/energy, I highly recommend going active, especially with diy drivers.

[NiFTiTEk]

I would recommend active as well, but you can design a crossover to suit the hertz with the xt25.

I wouldnt however cross the xt25 below 3k even at a 24db slope and even using an active crossover...
Unless you remove the great wide impedance spike it has down low with a notch filter...then 2.5k would
be about as low as I would go.

Very nice tweeter at a good price.

The peerleess HDS and Air circ are better though and the HDS is very good value as well.

More flexible for off axis response, crossover matching and lower crossover points and quite a bit lower
distorsion. The Peerless HDS is up there with the best of them at less than half the cost of the Air Circ and
high power handling too.

-Frank-

Edited by NiFTiTEk, 17 May 2009 - 03:52 PM.

[muzzy66]

Matt VIP, on Mar 9 2009, 10:36 PM, said:

I've heard the scanspeak aircirc tweeters in Muzzy's car, and was absolutely blown away. AFAIK they can be had for about $4-600 for the pair?

Thanks for the kind words

The AirCirc is definately a very, very good tweeter - the finest I've used so far, I have to say.

That said, as Matt stated they aren't cheap cheap. To make matters worse, we've actually gotten quotes for the AirCirc lately (I was going to use them in my next hifi project) and the prices we got quoted have increased twice since I got my last pair. I can only assume that this is due to the currect economic situation (everything seems to be rising).

We still have to contact our suppliers and confirm whether the prices really have gone up that much or if it was just a mis-quote, because the price has gone up quite significantly since the last quote we recieved.

Here's a run down on some of the ultra-high performance tweeters out there:

Scanspeak 6600 'AirCirc'
The name AirCirc is a refrence to the fancy motor struture, which provides performance benefits while also (as a bonus) making the tweeter slimmer then most full size tweeters (only 1"" deep). The AirCirc has excellent performance down as low as 2khz - I've used it crossed at 1.6khz before, but for long term reliability I wouldn't recommend it, as distortion levels do increase below 2khz. Above 2khz though, I've yet to find a single tweeter that has tested better overall. Build quality is also excellent, with a very thick metal face plate. It also has increadible off axis response - probably the best I've seen on a 1" dome.

Peerless HDS
As mentioned by Spyne, the HDS is also a fine tweeter. It's known to be a slightly better low frequency peformance (reportedly ok crossed at 1.6k) but isn't quite as good from 2khz upwards. It's very close though, and given the Aircirc's abilities tha'ts no mean feat. Like the Aircirc, it has a nice metal face plate and is very well built, and like the AirCirc it also has a very good off axis response (helped by a slightly on axis rise up high). It's also less then 1/2 the AirCirc's price, which makes it one of the best value tweeters around.

Seas 27TBFC/G
Another excellent tweeter - I chose this one myself for use in my first custom bookshelf project. Absolutely fantastic tweeter. It's got comparable to the HDS in it's low frequency performance (1.6khz is reportedly fine on a steep slope). Distortion overall seems to be very slightly better then the HDS, although it's by such a small margin they are practically even. The Seas has generally got slightly a flatter on-axis response then the HDS and AirCirc (no upper frequency rise), but the side effect is that it's off axis performance isn't as good. Being half the price of the HDS (roughly), the Seas has a plasic face place, rather then the more classy steel face plate on the Peerless and Scan. Against the Peerless it's hard to pick which is better - the better off axis respons of the Peerless probably makes it more suitable for car use, and the better on axis response of the Seas probably makes it a better choice for hifi use.

Vifa XT25
Another one that was mentioned, the XT25 is a very good tweeter, but also a very flawed tweeter at the same time. While the Scan/Seas/Peerless are all very good all round drivers with no major flaws, the Vifa is more of a hit and miss affair. It's got some significant weaknesses, but what it does well it does very, very well. The downers for this tweeter are low frequency performance and off axis response. Harmonic distortion incrases quite significantly the instant you move below a 2.5khz crossover, and they are not recommended to be crossed any lower then this (on a steep slope). Off axis response is also a weak point - it's loses a lot of output the instant you start to get it out of a straight firing line. The strength of this tweeter is on axis, with a high crossover. Crossed at 2.5khz (or even better, 3khz) and mounted on axis, this tweeter will outperform anything I've listed here bar maybe the AirCirc. The on axis response is the best of the lot above 3khz, and is practically ruler flat while distortion is also exceptionally low over 2.5kz. It's priced roughly similarly to the Seas, and as such it also has a plastic face plate, rather then steel.

The large size of these tweeters can make installation a little complicated in a car (talking from experience) - however to make life easier the Seas, AirCirc and XT25 all have compact versions out there that are more suitable (size wise) for car use. They are each very close to their larger equivalents in performance, but typically each is slightly more restricted with low frequency performance. The Illuminator really should be crossed no lower then 2.5kz, the Seas Neo is impressively usable down to 2khz, and the new equivalent of the XT25 (have to confirm the model number) really shouldn't be crossed below 3k.

I'm tired as hell so I'm going to leave it a that! If you have any questions (or need pricing / availability) on those models feel free to drop me or Frank a PM and we'll if we can get some more information for you.

[jas]

how about vifa soft or hard dome car tweeters

d26nc-05-06 6ohm soft domes are very good they came with the first vifa alpine sets ( spx 177a )

http://www.carsound.com/review_archive/spk...e_SPX-177A.html

these tweeters can be had for around $30 each

however if you want something very small and awesome you can hardly beat the Scanspeak D2904-600000 tweeters

i own both of these tweeters and use them with some s/h alpine spx x-overs from ebay (spx-177a x-overs for the d26nc & spx-f17 or f13M x-overs for the scanspeak D2904-600000 tweeters )

if you want the pain of big tweeters then look at the list muzzy has posted, these are all great tweeters but are a lot harder to install.

Edited by jas, 07 April 2009 - 10:09 AM.

[Frankston Car Audio]

I'm surprised that no one has asked the OP what car?.. where are the current tweeters mounted?.. are they mounted on or off axis? and to what degree if on-axis?
What amplifier is in use?.. and what is the x-over point for the mid? (seeing as these Mille's are currently running passive).
I have used the MLK-165 set and never found the tweeters to be "harsh"..
Sounds more like an installation problem, to me..

Just my $0.02

Mark

[fuddbutter]

But Mark it's easier to sell the man new tweeters on here than help him out..

[Frankston Car Audio]

Fudd, on Apr 7 2009, 12:57 PM, said:

But Mark it's easier to sell the man new tweeters on here than help him out..

Thanks Fudd

Mark

[sean]

I like my Air Circ's too, verry smooth without the harshness of the Hertz or Focals