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Review: Phass Vs Focal


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#1 Mr_Bob

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 04:49 PM

As some are you are aware i've changed my setup...

Old setup:
Focal Utopia 3 ways 165W3's
Focal Midbasses powered by a JL300/4 (bridged)
Focal midrange and tweeter (using passive crossover) powered by the Phass HP475 (bridged)
Phass AT20(ambient) - Alpine V12

New setup:
Phass MW6521(midbass) - Phass HPp4.75 (bridged)
Phass AT28(tweeter) + MW4415AL(midrange) + PX220HGW (crossover) - Phass HP100(dual mono amp)
Phass AT20(ambient) - Alpine V12

All crossover settings are set at my processor, amp crossovers aren't used at all.
The major change here is the midbass, midrange, main tweeter and passive Crossover.
The front stage amps also changed, which resulted in less power to the midrange+main tweeter combo. i'm sure they play a part in the differences i'm about to describe, (although some will argue they cannot possibly make a difference)

Anyway...

Build/appearance:
Both are certainly built to impressive standards,
The 165W3's have a chromed bottom plate, with Focal etched into it, and a grey hammer tone finish over the cast baskets. the magnets are large, making the midbass look like a mini-subwoofer.
The speakers have grey cones which are smooth, thin and light, almost semi-transparent, with a black fleck.
The tweeter has a titanium inverted dome.
Crossover is large and fairly well constructed, however there's some small rattles. Casing is solid and made from matte black plastic. Components are of good quality, and there's an attentuation switch for the midrange and tweeter (0, -2 and -4db from memory)
Note: This crossover has known issues with some Alpine amps, which see it to be of insufficient impedance and shut down. There's a simple fix availabel if you speak to the distributors.

The Phass Alnico's are fully machined, with a mid-blue multi-AlNiCo magnet array (similar in appearance to the multi-ferrite array on focal subwoofers)
The speaker cones are dark, appear thick and reasonably heavy, the front surface is rough textured, yet the back is smooth.
Even the tweeter has a machined casing, which at first appears to be quite deep, but when the rear cap is unscrewed, it is no longer much deeper than the focal ones
The crossovers are very impressive with wooden casings, which appear to be veneered. Silk screened perspex cover shows off the quality components inside. The cover is secured by gold plated allen key bolts, they screw into a thread which has been inserted into the wooden casing, big :thumb: for attention to detail. Not one rattle to be heard, however, the perspex cover needs to be removed to affix speaker wires. No adjustability
Note: The alnico's seem to be mostly 6ohm speakers (some state it, I haven't checked those that don't)

Listening test:
Focals

The focals have a "dry" sound. With agility and accuracy, they have little trouble articulating any form of music. The midbass woofers are authoritive, clean punchy. The midranges can re-reproduce horns without glare, yet with an edge that makes you sit-up. The tweeters sound smooth, but a tiny bit "cold".
This set is incredible for all forms of music, especially techno/electronic. Due to the tweeter, some astute listeners may find that Jazz/orchestral music lacks a bit of warmth, but i'm being highly critical here :)
It took a while for me to get these setup right (18months) but with a bit of tuning i was very impressed.

Phass
Now that the Phass set has run-in, i'm blown away. One of the midbass drivers sounded scratchy at first, but with time this sound has gone. i can only attribute it to "excess glue" and was only audible due to the extremely small tolerances (exceptional build quality)
Resolution and articulation would only be challenged by Golf_Bht's crazy horn setup, yet authority and power handling is well beyond that.
Recorded distortions (guitar, voice effects) take on a new level of texture and refinement that i've only previously experienced in home audio setups.
Horns have more edge than the Focals, yet still don't have the annoying glare i hear with other speakers.
Windchimes "drip" from the soundstage, seemingly more inspiring than the original recording. Warmth from the tweeters is spot on (for my taste) and tonal accuracy is incredible, i'm not sure if it even need much EQing.
Sounds which previously were heard as a "tish" or even static, turn out to be tambourines and maracas!
i can only attribute this to average recording quality, which the Phass have "made the most of" wheras other speakers didn't quite resolve the sounds with the same level of accuracy.

All in all, the Phass set is notably dearer, a 2 way set with crossover will set you back around $1800, a 3 way set isn't available, midbasses were purchased seperately, bringing the total to close to $2500
wheras the focal 3 way set, retailed for $1450 at the time.

But for a purist SQ nut, the difference is WELL worth the extra $$$.
<p style="text-align: center"><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'><span style="color: red">RE XXX Splits - AXTU600C<br />12&quot; RE XXX - USAmps AX2000</span></span></span></strong></p><br />  <p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2004 CAASQ National Champion (Amateur Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p><br /><p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2005 CAASQ National Runner up (Pro Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p>

#2 Mr_Bob

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 04:50 PM

I forgot to add:
Packaging! :)
The focals come packaged in styrofoam, each component has a seperate compartment, providing good protection. this is re-packaged into a cardboard box, and included is a "focal ownership card" including the serial number, i guess this is proof of purchase incase of theft, and possibly used for warranty.

The Phass, come packaged in plywood boxes! inside the box is a mid-level platform, with holes cut into it to slot the components into. this platform seems to be covered in vinyl too... very high attention to detail!

In the following images, the AT20 tweeter which is part of the 4" split set, was actually used for ambient duties whereas i added an extra set of AT28's (larger tweeter) for my main tweeters.
I chose to do this, as i assumed that the AT20's would re-produce frequencies above 15KHz better. wheras the AT28 may handle power better, as the passive crossover point will be further from it's Fs
Ontop of this, the AT20's are easier to mount in my a-pillars, and the At28's slotted straight into my existing main tweeter spot :)

Here's the pics! i do have a shot of the Focals somewhere, i'll keep digging!
i apologise for my average photography skills (especially in the midbass shot )
<p style="text-align: center"><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'><span style="color: red">RE XXX Splits - AXTU600C<br />12&quot; RE XXX - USAmps AX2000</span></span></span></strong></p><br />  <p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2004 CAASQ National Champion (Amateur Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p><br /><p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2005 CAASQ National Runner up (Pro Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p>

#3 edy

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 04:54 PM

Sounds very impressive, what sizes are the midbass and midrange of the Phass gear?

The focals are 4 and 6.5 aren't they?

edy
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Subwoofer: too come....

#4 audioquest

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 09:23 PM

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BMW X6 Performance Parts & audison THESIS Audio Install

"Expensive" gear doesn't = Good Sound Quality, but it sure gave me "EXCLUSIVITY"


#5 Marc ♫

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 09:26 PM

Sounds good Ben, but you've had no sound in your car for a while haven't you?

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#6 golf_bht

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 04:11 AM

I might be able to bring my audio system to OZ with me. the new F1, dls ir6.3 and 3 milberts. the crazy horn setup is long gone. the propper passive 3 ways setup + time alignment is much less time consoming to get a ok result.
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#7 Mr_Bob

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 08:53 AM

The Phass and Focals are both 4" midrange and 6.5" midbass.
to swap them over it was a re-wire and re-screw job, no mucking around (thankfully)
the Phass midrange had 5mm more mounting depth, but as the diameter of the magnet is smaller, it still fit into the tight gap.
the midbass driver was shaller than the Focal.

HAHAHA i personally prefer the Phass to A/D/S, but i'm yet to hear an A/D/S 3 way setup, so i guess that's not a fair comparison.

Marc, i didn't go without sound this time! :) but there was a period where i had to run the focals mid+highs and the Phass midbasses semi active off the hp475 (unbridged)

Bring it over Artkran! i hear the DLS 3 way setup is definately one of the best around, and is very well priced considering it's performance. I don't know of anyone in Oz who's taken the time to set them up properly!
<p style="text-align: center"><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'><span style="color: red">RE XXX Splits - AXTU600C<br />12&quot; RE XXX - USAmps AX2000</span></span></span></strong></p><br />  <p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2004 CAASQ National Champion (Amateur Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p><br /><p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2005 CAASQ National Runner up (Pro Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p>

#8 Pyroay

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 09:23 AM

What sort of $$ for the DLS set-up i have read many good things about them.
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#9 Mr_Bob

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 09:36 AM

From memory $1500-1800... not cheap, but international competition standard.
the Fins/Sweds have cleaned up a number of championship trophies with them.

Considering any Hi-End set of 3 ways is going to set you back $1500, these are on the cheaper side of "hi-end" but these apparently perform as well, or better, than anything dearer.
<p style="text-align: center"><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'><span style="color: red">RE XXX Splits - AXTU600C<br />12&quot; RE XXX - USAmps AX2000</span></span></span></strong></p><br />  <p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2004 CAASQ National Champion (Amateur Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p><br /><p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2005 CAASQ National Runner up (Pro Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p>

#10 Pyroay

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 10:12 AM

Thats fine, i thought they might have been over $2,000.
Most of the really nice sounding 3 ways i have heard are around $1,400 - $1,800 anyway.

The Dyn's System 360's retail for $1,499 i think
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#11 E320Titanium

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 10:39 AM

Nice review Ben

Has any one noticed that a lot of overseas comp winning cars seam to have 3 ways with the mid and tweeter up high mounted on the dash and or A pillar.

Even the BMW pro car that has taken out 2 first prise's in the comps here also has the mid and tweeter up on the A pillar.

Are we going to see a trend start up here?

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#12 The Don

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 10:43 AM

E320... i think that questions worthy of another thread...

I would seriously like to know why this is the case too - why would peope go to the trouble of mounting speakers on the A pillar!?

#13 E320Titanium

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 10:52 AM

Um OK i'll start one.

Car audio is a drug..

Once you start you cannot stop.



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#14 Pyroay

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 10:52 AM

I found they sounded very good there in my car, and obviousy the results agree.
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#15 Mr_Bob

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 12:30 PM

i'm not a huge fan of the a-pillar mounts, they're too close for a soundstage to develop properly, and left right bias will always be an issue with such close proximity.

The swedish DLS guys have an alternative, which i prefer.... see if you can find some pics, i can't at the moment! :(
<p style="text-align: center"><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'><span style="color: red">RE XXX Splits - AXTU600C<br />12&quot; RE XXX - USAmps AX2000</span></span></span></strong></p><br />  <p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2004 CAASQ National Champion (Amateur Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p><br /><p style="text-align: center"><em><strong><span style="font-family: Tahoma"><span style='font-size: 10px;'>2005 CAASQ National Runner up (Pro Street class)</span></span></strong></em></p>





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