11 replies to this topic

[suparockin]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if I could get some opinions on imaging vs volume in regards to SQ.

At the moment I have the following installed in my Tiguan -

Front stage - Diamond Audio 363.5 splits
Amp - Arc KS125.4 mini 4 channel
Sub - Diamond Audio D3 12" (custom sealed box)
Amp - Arc KS500.1 mini monoblock
Processing - Audison BitOne
Sound deadening - Dynamat

Build thread and pics here -
http://www.mobileelectronics.com.au/forums...howtopic=554208

The sound quality and imaging is fantastic, esp at low to mid volume - the thing is that I can't help but think that I would like more midbass.

Marty and the guys at FHRX, plus nearly everyone I've spoken to has said that adding rears would 'drag the soundstage back' which I understand but it just seems to me that without rears I won't get the midbass volume I want.

At the moment the rears are running off the stock headunit, they are faded down all the way. If I fade them on they seem out of sync with the rest of the system - probably because they are not in the loop with the Audison Bitone?

So the question is - how important is imaging to you? Has *anyone* sacrificed imaging in order to get clear loud midbass? Just how bad is it to drag the soundstage further back? Does it annoy you if you've done it?

I want clear and loud, quality sound - I assume people will say that this is impossible.

Be gentle, I am a bit of a noob.

Thanks.

[Luke352]

If all you were adding was a dedicated midbass driver crossed over very steeply no higher then say 200hz, and you kept your current fronts playing down through that range, and you could guarantee no vibrations etc from the rear door, and Time Aligned appropriately then you could get away with it. You may still get it dragging back slightly, but it's not as bad as people make out especially if it's integrated correctly. My midbass are in front of the drivers seat firing straight up, and you only get a very minor sensation that they are there at louder volumes due to baffle vibrations etc... The issue is this will be much harder to acheive with drivers mounted in the door then in a dedicated fibreglass and MDF enclosure like mine and also Pulse-R and Cyberpunky use a similar arrangement.

[~Spyne~]

if you dont intend to compete in sq comps, then having a rear stage to add some midbass kick will be fine.
you may, or may not find the different staging annoying.

you should still be able to get good midbass from your gear though. however, i wont suggest how you could try fixing it as some people don't think such advice should be given. but try taking it to FHRX and ask them to play around with time alignment, amplifier gains and crossovers and see if they can get it to sound how you want. (tip: independant left/right time alignment on the midbass can help with phase issues, depending on what volume u want to listen to the stereo, removing any high-pass filters on the midbass can also help - as can raising the low-pass filter on the sub)

[~thematt~]

If you know what you're doing, running midbass in the rear is perfectly fine.

Eldridge and Clark, amongst others, did it for years with 10 and 12" monsters. And their cars are still considered the benchmark for image and stage.

[zion187reigneth]

i think rear speakers are great ,band passing(HP flilter and LP filter) them is the go. I also believe that a rear speaker that doesnt mess with your sub bass range and also doesn't add to your vocal range is cool to listen too.

*although midbass SQ is dependant on the sound being very clear and arriving at your ears without another wave of midbass arriving at your ears at a different time.Time Alignment is essential in that case

Edited by zion187reigneth, 17 December 2009 - 09:38 PM.

[Fhrx]

Rai; please keep in mind that most cars with seriously strong midbass utilise dedicated midbass drivers (i.e as part of a three or more way component set)...

Edited by Fhrx, 17 December 2009 - 09:39 PM.

[Zenafore]

frhx is right

and diamond are really nice speakers but how much bass you expect from first level splits

[mad89]

Out of curiosity, has it been retuned since you got it? Dont forget that usually gains are set conservatively on brand new speakers to allow them some time to run in etc, and once they have done so, can be fed a little more power.

IMO, give it another week or two then take it back to get it retuned (im confident Marty would have said something similar to you aswell). That said, dont be expecting miracles from 6.5" drivers, they arent subs, but should still perform fairly well given you have gotten the 'install' part of the equation right.

From here on its in the tune once theyre run in properly, etc. Im sure Marty and the boys will sort you out if/when you explain to them exactly what you want.

[zion187reigneth]

suparockin, on Dec 17 2009, 11:26 AM, said:

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if I could get some opinions on imaging vs volume in regards to SQ.



Thanks.

it is also possible that you have some sound issues that are degrading your midbass..I really believe that you can get midbass from any 6" or bigger .thats what they all do best.have you tried volume level matching your frontstage with the sub "off".

[Pulse-R]

don't be afraid to run the sub up to 150Hz. it should do so reasonable well, and give good midbass kick. that's what I did until I got good midbass woofers in the front.

[suparockin]

Yeah, will give the speakers some more time to stretch before chatting with Marty about adding rears.

Not sure I would have gone with three ways in the front, wouldn't have a factory position to place the midbass?

[mad89]

Midbass in the doors (or in custom floor enclosures if you wanted to get really serious). Itd be the midrange you'd need to worry about.