64 replies to this topic

[Aris]

Has anyone used ribbons tweeters in a car?

I'm thinking of using RAAL 20-70 tweeters. For home audio these are the best I've used.
They don't sound like tweeters, all other tweeters are annoying to the ear.

I've used most scanspeak, dynaudio, focal, seas and most other brands and they all have severe limitations.

Any suggestions?

[268669♫]

where the hell will you put them, they are not small, even though they are the smaller raals they huge for a tweeter.

Ant

[Aris]

268669, on Jan 15 2010, 06:09 PM, said:

where the hell will you put them, they are not small, even though they are the smaller raals they huge for a tweeter.

Ant

I'm thinking of rebuilding the door trims in a current shape caprice to fit them, the tweeters are roughly 3" X 4". I'm hoping they work well once placed on the doors. Note that the off-axis response is flat to almost 20KHZ. I know of no other tweeter that measures that well off axis other than the focal TLR which is flat to 12kHZ off axis. All dome tweeters are useless off axis after about 3KHZ.

These aren't the small RAALs, they are only available to OEM companies and require approval from RAAL to use. They are superior to the RAAL tweeters you buy from Madisound or other such retailers.

I'm also going to use a second tweeter (scanspeak 3/4" illuminator) for a masking effect.

Edited by Aris, 15 January 2010 - 05:47 PM.

[~Samuel~]

Do it, i dont see why it can work, just post lots and lots of photos for us all to see

Mind you i would not be doing door trims, thought about kicks?

[Tiger]

Where there's a will, there's a way!

I personally haven't used them, however, I've heard they give horns a run for their money with regards to the higher frequencies.

[Aris]

SPL Samuel, on Jan 15 2010, 06:52 PM, said:

Do it, i dont see why it can work, just post lots and lots of photos for us all to see

Mind you i would not be doing door trims, thought about kicks?

I'm a novice when it comes to car audio and positioning of drivers in a car any recommendations are welcomed. If you think the kicks are a better position for the tweeters maybe I should consider it,

[Luke352]

^^^ What car? As this can determine what positions you can use or will work best.

Also "thematt" on this forum uses ribbons either LCY's or AC's I can't remember which, hopefully he'll chime in and give you his opinion, as he is probably the only person on the forum to have alot of experience using ribbons in car.

[Pulse-R]

When you tried the Dyn tweeters - did you try Esotar MD330D?

I like them, but bigger than your ribbons.

like any speaker, as far from you as possible works best.

[~thematt~]

Kicks, door trims and even A-pillars should be out, for ribbon installs. They beam quite sharply, and the only place that I could get them working is buried in the dash with a waveguide. I only have the ribbon face visible. Best Height and width I've yet to hear in a car, and I'm the SQ judge for WA so I've heard a few, but the dispersion needs to be improved. Little bit of work with my waveguides though, and I'm laughing.

Incredible sound for the price. I wouldnt put RAALs in there though. Too expensive. Not worth it. My LCY's were $100 a pop delivered (express post from the US), and work well, but only play 6.5k up. Gives it air and space, but nothing special to the overall sound. Its the mids that are critical, but hey, your money.

Also, using a 2nd tweeter is flawed and wont work. Adding more diffuse sound wont cure the diffuse sound you already have.

Plus, we've said this on here before. Polar response (beaming) is primarily due to the dimension of the diaphragm, not the type of driver. Only waveguides can increase it. The Focal TLR only gets a good offaxis response, like the Dyn 330D, by using a good waveguide. There is no amount of Engineering or Design that is capable of overcoming physics.

You cant argue with Physics. Well, you can, but you'd be wrong.

[FreQuence]

~thematt~, on Jan 15 2010, 07:04 PM, said:

Kicks, door trims and even A-pillars should be out, for ribbon installs. They beam quite sharply, and the only place that I could get them working is buried in the dash with a waveguide. I only have the ribbon face visible. Best Height and width I've yet to hear in a car, and I'm the SQ judge for WA so I've heard a few, but the dispersion needs to be improved. Little bit of work with my waveguides though, and I'm laughing.

Also, using a 2nd tweeter is flawed and wont work. Adding more diffuse sound wont cure the diffuse sound you already have.

Taken from FHRX's install pics.

 pcon_4.jpg   103.53K   11 downloads  pcon_5.jpg   120.74K   8 downloads
 pcon_6.jpg   125.89K   6 downloads



Looks like someone disagree's with you

[~Spyne~]

doesnt mean it sounds any good, FreQuence

[~Samuel~]

I have seen them used in the kicks in the US, then again that does not mean they sounded very good

Edit: Damn you Spyne i was too slow

Edited by SPL Samuel, 15 January 2010 - 07:19 PM.

[Luke352]

FreQuence, on Jan 15 2010, 07:14 PM, said:

Taken from FHRX's install pics.

pcon_4.jpg pcon_5.jpg
pcon_6.jpg



Looks like someone disagree's with you

No they don't actually since those are actually Midrange ribbons, also not sure if they are actually a ribbon, probably closer to a planar in design. If you go to the bottom of this page http://www.hertzaudi.../default_en.htm and look at the specs for the MLCX3 which is the supplied passive you'll see they cross the ribbon over at 900hz on the low end and 4.55khz on the top end. Also the response of those drops off like a cliff past 10khz.

Edited by Luke352, 15 January 2010 - 07:35 PM.

[FreQuence]

Is a Planar the same as an Electrostatic transducer or whetever they are called?

[Luke352]

FreQuence, on Jan 15 2010, 07:26 PM, said:

Is a Planar the same as an Electrostatic transducer or whetever they are called?

See here to read about the differences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tweeter from the looks of it the Hertz ribbon is a true ribbon. Also looking at the photos and position of those tweeters and typical ribbon response and also according to Hertz documentation they really didn't put those ribbons in a very ideal position.

Edited by Luke352, 15 January 2010 - 07:58 PM.