107 replies to this topic

[hilux08]

Hey guys,

Well it's time to start getting together components for my new install. Basically I want your thoughts and opinions on the following tweeters (whether it be first hand experience or not):

-ScanSpeak Air Circ D3004/6600-00
-ScanSpeak Ring Radiator R2904/7000-05
-HAT L1 Pro SE
-Morel Supremo

They will be installed on axis in the A pillars of my 2008 hilux, and will be run active as part of a 3 way system. Although I haven't chosen my amplification as of yet, will be more than likely running off the Zed Leviathian

Thanks

[HEKYEH]

I have first hand experience with the HAT L1 Pro SE tweeters. I'm running them active in a 3 way setup and currently have them playing from 3.2KHz up to 20KHz. I have them sitting next to my midrange in custom pods on the dash right next to the A pillars. They would be slightly off axis, but not by much.

My initial impression was awesome! They felt so mellow yet warm and they just made me want to listen to them for hour after hour. No harshness, and this was all with a totally flat EQ. After about 20-30 hrs of play time now, they have really come to life. Everything is crystal clear and even when cranked there is no sign of sibilance.

I'm still playing around with the xover points at this stage...but i've had them playing from as low as 2.5Khz and they sound great there too.

Very awesome tweeter and they look damn sexy too! Fairly small and compact they can be mounted pretty much anywhere without any massively crazy custom work...

Edited by NiDeKCuS, 19 January 2010 - 04:51 PM.

[hilux08]

Thanks Nideckus for the reply, one very big advantage of the HAT's are there physical size and there sex appeal. And to top it off, they can be had at a reasonable price, although they must be getting low on numbers now.....weren't there only 150 produced?

[HEKYEH]

Correct on the 150 produced....I got #90-something...So u will probably b very lucky to get some.

I'd PM Marc to see if any are available - he may have a little stash if u r lucky.

I haven't heard the others, but by all accounts they r pretty decent as well!

[~Spyne~]

have heard both, and not just quick listens...
Air-Circ or HAT SE

can't go wrong with either, both roughly the same price.
another to consider is the Crescendo T3R

Edited by ~Spyne~, 19 January 2010 - 05:35 PM.

[muzzy66]

The Scan-Speak ring radiator isn't worth considering if you ask me. Don't get me wrong, it's an outstanding tweeter...but the AirCirc is an overall better performer at a fraction of the price. If you want to make some comparisons for yourself, check out the 'tests' page at www.zaphaudio.com to compare them. Even if you can't make sense of all the measurements, the comments should offer some insight.

Also, if small size is important to you, I'd throw the ScanSpeak Illuminator into consideration as well - model number D3004/602000. It's essentially a 'small format' version of the AirCirc, and having used both tweeters I can tell you they sound practically identical when crossed at 2.5khz or higher. They used to be the same price as the AirCirc tweeters, but have recently dropped a LOT - you can now get them landed here from Madisound for around $300/pair. That's roughly half the price of the AirCirc, for 95% of the performance (no exhageration).

The Supremo is definately one of the best car tweeters i've heard. But as good a tweeter as it is (and it is quite good), it's no match for the AirCirc or Illuminator IMHO.

The only car tweeter i've heard that may come close to the ScanSpeak pair was the Rainbow Platinum - I really liked that tweeter at the time, but it was a longgggg time ago so i can't even begin to compare to the others (which I heard far more recently).

Edited by muzzy66, 19 January 2010 - 06:00 PM.

[hilux08]

Thanks Muzzy I am leaning towards the air circ or HAT atm. Do you know any suppliers in Australia where i can source these? I know madisound has them and also a company named speaker bits in Melbourne www.speakerbits.com. Although their website seems to be down atm. I think from memory they were $330 each

[Aris]

hilux08, on Jan 19 2010, 07:34 PM, said:

Thanks Muzzy I am leaning towards the air circ or HAT atm. Do you know any suppliers in Australia where i can source these? I know madisound has them and also a company named speaker bits in Melbourne www.speakerbits.com. Although their website seems to be down atm. I think from memory they were $330 each

I recently bought 10 pairs of the air circ from speakerbits in port melbourne (we use them in some of the models of speakers we build) and they were roughly $450each. They are a very good tweeter, it depends on the type of sound you are trying to achieve. Another exceptional tweeter (if size isn't a problem) is the Acuton ceramic dome which has a slightly more laid back sound than the scan or the Focal TLR if you are after a more detailed sound. The Acuton is available from madisound and the TLR from Zalytron. Both the Acuton and TLR are inverted domes and have very good sound dispersion.

Edited by Aris, 19 January 2010 - 07:14 PM.

[hilux08]

Aris, on Jan 19 2010, 07:11 PM, said:

I recently bought 10 pairs of the air circ from speakerbits in port melbourne (we use them in some of the models of speakers we build) and they were roughly $450each. They are a very good tweeter, it depends on the type of sound you are trying to achieve. Another exceptional tweeter (if size isn't a problem) is the Acuton ceramic dome which has a slightly more laid back sound than the scan or the Focal TLR if you are after a more detailed sound. The Acuton is available from madisound and the TLR from Zalytron. Both the Acuton and TLR are inverted domes and have very good sound dispersion.

Their website seems to be up and working again, and the retail price is $335.35?? Seems a sizeable difference between the $450 you paid Aris. I will call them tomorrow and confirm this however

[Luke352]

Aris, on Jan 19 2010, 07:11 PM, said:

I recently bought 10 pairs of the air circ from speakerbits in port melbourne (we use them in some of the models of speakers we build) and they were roughly $450each. They are a very good tweeter, it depends on the type of sound you are trying to achieve. Another exceptional tweeter (if size isn't a problem) is the Acuton ceramic dome which has a slightly more laid back sound than the scan or the Focal TLR if you are after a more detailed sound. The Acuton is available from madisound and the TLR from Zalytron. Both the Acuton and TLR are inverted domes and have very good sound dispersion.

You can also buy Acuton from these guys in NZ http://www.hasaudio.co.nz/accuton-m-11.htm...e=1&sort=3a , there prices are generally very competitive and in some cases once you take shipping costs from the US into account there prices end up better.

[Luke352]

Hang on, before you go forking out $700 on a set of tweeters in a 3 way can I ask what you intend on running for midrange, as honestly in a 3 way in car the tweeters is probably the least important part of the whole setup, spend up big on a nice set of midranges get a midbass with plenty of output and then worry about your tweeers, I honestly feel in a 3 way setup when your using the tweeter at 4-5k and above you will be hard pressed picking the difference between a set of decent $150pr tweeters and $700pr ones. If you were talking about a 2 way setup then I would say go get some nice tweeters.

The issue is in car your going to have so many reflections and other rubbish going on, and aslong as you are crossing high enough to avoid any distortion then going all out with tweeters is really a waste. In a 3 way I would be spending twice as much on my midranges compared to my tweeters.

[Aris]

hilux08, on Jan 19 2010, 08:22 PM, said:

Their website seems to be up and working again, and the retail price is $335.35?? Seems a sizeable difference between the $450 you paid Aris. I will call them tomorrow and confirm this however

Apologies, after checking my invoices, it was the ring radiator I purchased from Tom Manning at speakerbits for $450. The Air Circ 6600 were purchased from madisound (approx $280 each, landed).

[muzzy66]

It does depend on which mids are being used though, as well as how and where they are bring mounted.

That said, even a 3khz crossover is high enough to allow something much cheaper (like an XT25 or SB29) to be used with exceptional results. Don't underestimate these cheaper tweeters either - when crossed over high enough, they can seriously compete with tweeters well above their price point.

I tried the SB29s in my own system to see how they sound, and they really are as brilliant as people say - but even with a 3khz crossover, they still didn't seem to sound quite as effortless as the Illuminators. Maybe jacking it up to 4khz would have made the diffrence - there was definately a noticable improvement going fom 2.5k to 3k, that's for sure.

Edited by muzzy66, 19 January 2010 - 09:30 PM.

[hilux08]

That is a very relevant point Luke, to which i have no answer (I'm suprised no one has pointed this fact out yet). Basically, i have decided to use the Dyn MW182 10" woofers mounted OB in the doors for mid bass duties. And as stated in this thread, have basically narrowed the tweeters down to either the aircir or HAT L1 Pro SE. As far as midrange goes I have been doing alot of research but am still a little stumped. I know the way I am choosing components may seem quite unorthodox, however I am still learning. As far as midrange goes, they will be mounted on or at least within 30 degree's on axis in the A pillars. I particulary like the HAT L4, but really am open to suggestions

Thanks

[Aris]

muzzy66, on Jan 19 2010, 10:21 PM, said:

It does depend on which mids are being used though, as well as how and where they are bring mounted.

That said, even a 3khz crossover is high enough to allow something much cheaper (like an XT25 or SB29) to be used with exceptional results. Don't underestimate these cheaper tweeters either - when crossed over high enough, they can seriously compete with tweeters well above their price point.

I tried the SB29s in my own system to see how they sound, and they really are as brilliant as people say - but even with a 3khz crossover, they still didn't seem to sound quite as effortless as the Illuminators. Maybe jacking it up to 4khz would have made the diffrence - there was definately a noticable improvement going fom 2.5k to 3k, that's for sure.

Muzzy is correct in saying that some of the cheaper tweeters are just as good and if not better when crossing up high. Eg the SEAS 27TBC/G metal dome tweeter is extremely good when crossing over 4.5 KHZ. It costs roughly $35 - $40 US.

Edited by Aris, 19 January 2010 - 10:08 PM.