24 replies to this topic

[Aris]

Thoughts of the use of an inverter in a car for an AD converter, upsampler and DA converter from the head unit?

[Big_Valven]

Why would you want to convert something from analogue to digital, upsample it, then convert it back to analogue again? Hello needless processing and increased noise.

[~Samuel~]

Becasue hes an Audiophile with experience in HiFi where it is all the rage

Aris i doubt the quality of the signal is good enough to begin with, were not talking a $10,000 Hifi transport here we are talking about a car aduio headunit, i seriously doubt the benefits would be noticable, the costs on the other hand woul be large.

Not to mention adding AC into a car system seems like a great way to add noise and interference.

Edited by SPL Samuel, 21 January 2010 - 09:53 PM.

[Chaos]

SPL Samuel, on Jan 21 2010, 10:52 PM, said:

Not to mention adding AC into a car system seems like a great way to add noise and interference.

The good old 50-60 Hz buzz... it just moar ess quuez isn't it?

[Aris]

Big_Valven, on Jan 21 2010, 10:40 PM, said:

Why would you want to convert something from analogue to digital, upsample it, then convert it back to analogue again? Hello needless processing and increased noise.

We have developed what we call a "black box" that contains an AD, upsampler, our own processing (true 32 bit) and algorithms which significantly enhances the stereo signal. (It has to be 32 bit processing for the amount of information we add). We also have built in room correction and convolusion technology which allows to copy any sound we want. That is if we like the sound of a 300B tube we can copy its sonic signature. The unit also has an DA converter. All this technology is patented. But I would like to use it in the car. In the home environment our technology makes conventional stereo sound second rate.

If the inverter adds noise, I can ask our digital expert to design and build me a "black box"
with a 12V power supply.

Edited by Aris, 21 January 2010 - 10:24 PM.

[~Samuel~]

Do you work for behringer? Sounds like something they would make...

[Aris]

SPL Samuel, on Jan 21 2010, 11:25 PM, said:

Do you work for behringer? Sounds like something they would make...

No.

[~Samuel~]

Aris, on Jan 21 2010, 10:57 PM, said:

No.

Excuse me and my humour

Just reminds me of the effects they make for guitar and bass that replicates the sounds of different tube heads etc

Sorry but i just fail to see the need or purpose of such a device

Edited by SPL Samuel, 21 January 2010 - 10:30 PM.

[Big_Valven]

Aris, on Jan 21 2010, 10:53 PM, said:

We have developed what we call a "black box" that contains an AD, upsampler, our own processing (true 32 bit) and algorithms which significantly enhances the stereo signal. (It has to be 32 bit processing for the amount of information we add). We also have built in room correction and convolusion technology which allows to copy any sound we want. That is if we like the sound of a 300B tube we can copy its sonic signature. The unit also has an DA converter. All this technology is patented. But I would like to use it in the car. In the home environment our technology makes conventional stereo sound second rate.

If the inverter adds noise, I can ask our digital expert to design and build me a "black box"
with a 12V power supply.

If you've gone to the effort to develop something like that for home use, I'm sure your engineer will slap you for powering it with an AC inverter, when they could design a 14v power supply for it.

Forgive me for the hard-nosed approach but it sounds like you're using a simple 32-bit DSP with some EQ algorithms. It's nothing new in car audio, there are many devices out there to do 90% of what you have mentioned.

As for wanting to copy the "sonic signature" (eg negative feedback and 2nd order harmonic distortion) of a valve preamp, not absolutely sure why you want to do that with digital equivalents in the first place.
And you're still going through A/D and D/A stages, which add distortion.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as an asshole but it's quite unsubstantiated that you'd spill beans on this revolutionary "black box" and not even tell us what company makes it or where we'd find one for home use.

[Chaos]

Hahaha big valven you sound like you've been at this engineering business for a while now!

I do like the sound of a valve amp though... but not a stack of transistors trying to sound like valves!

[Aris]

SPL Samuel, on Jan 21 2010, 11:29 PM, said:

Excuse me and my humour

Just reminds me of the effects they make for guitar and bass that replicates the sounds of different tube heads etc

Sorry but i just fail to see the need or purpose of such a device

The unit does a lot more than replicate sounds, I can't give too much away at this stage. But one of our achievements is that we have added up to 4 seconds of delay into the signal without creating echoes to simulate a concert hall. Concert halls have a reverb time of up to four seconds. A normal room has no hope in hell of sounding like a concert hall with conventional stereo.

Our technology has been validated or in the process of being validated by a number of the world's most prominent sound engineers. We are hoping to license it sometime this year.

[Chaos]

Aris, on Jan 22 2010, 12:00 AM, said:

The unit does a lot more than replicate sounds, I can't give too much away at this stage. But one of our achievements is that we have added up to 4 seconds of delay into the signal without creating echoes to simulate a concert hall. Concert halls have a reverb time of up to four seconds. A normal room has no hope in hell of sounding like a concert hall with conventional stereo.

Our technology has been validated or in the process of being validated by a number of the world's most prominent sound engineers. We are hoping to license it sometime this year.

Congratulations. But this forum, which is all about car audio, seems an odd place to be discussing an unnamed, unreleased home stereo product? And regarding 4 seconds of delay - my guitar pedal does that too!

Edited by Chaos, 21 January 2010 - 11:09 PM.

[~Samuel~]

Yes but who wants a 4 second delay in their music? Thats exactly my point the aim is to take a CD and reproduce, not dd delay and other effects to make it sound different. Presets on HT amplifiers like concert etc are a total joke, the only one with any value is the 'pure direct' for stereo without any added processing.

What company? I think its getting to the stage where you should make it public who you work for, im sorry but im not in anyway excited by a sophisticated Cancert hall setting for my car, in fact id rather burn it to the ground than listen to my CD's with a device that adds 4 seconds of delay

If i want a concert hall ill go see music live in such a setting, im not going to try to reproduce that in a car, sorry but that seems totally retarded

[Aris]

Big_Valven, on Jan 21 2010, 11:41 PM, said:

If you've gone to the effort to develop something like that for home use, I'm sure your engineer will slap you for powering it with an AC inverter, when they could design a 14v power supply for it.

Forgive me for the hard-nosed approach but it sounds like you're using a simple 32-bit DSP with some EQ algorithms. It's nothing new in car audio, there are many devices out there to do 90% of what you have mentioned.

As for wanting to copy the "sonic signature" (eg negative feedback and 2nd order harmonic distortion) of a valve preamp, not absolutely sure why you want to do that with digital equivalents in the first place.
And you're still going through A/D and D/A stages, which add distortion.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as an asshole but it's quite unsubstantiated that you'd spill beans on this revolutionary "black box" and not even tell us what company makes it or where we'd find one for home use.

I can't tell the name ofthe company at this stage because of commercial reasons.

A 32 bit DSP chip equates to approx 18 bit of actual processing. And we are not using EQ algorithms.

I'm not an engineer, so pardon my ignorance, but I thought an inverter might be cheaper than paying our engineers $2700 an hour to build me a unit with a 14V power supply. Thus the reason for asking people there views on the use of inverters.

[Aris]

We digressed enough from the original query.

I'll take it on board that an inverter is not a good idea.