49 replies to this topic

[~thematt~]

Muzz, I had a quick look around to see if I still had the link. There was a forum overseas where someone actually took apart a Reference Midrange, and performed distortion tests on it and the Excel. The Reference was/is built in Germany (from memory, another buildhouse though), but the motor was identical. I remember discussions about the Reference actually using the Proprietary Seas SD Motor, and photos to demonstrate. A few other comparisons between them too, which indicated that either the design was copied, or SEAS engineers actually designed the Reference line. Cant refind the link again though If I dig it up, I'll slap it through to you. It was an interesting read, but not surprising given the limited number of credible designs that are actually used around the place.

And Jas, most of which you talked about is a load of bollocks. Yes it costs a lot of money to 'build' drivers, given that most build costs are fixed (bar labour and consumables) because of the costs to 'tool up' and the lower numbers are therefore more expensive because of the turnaround. But that doesnt make them 'exclusive'. Exclusive is the term marketing use to bling up units and justify a price.

Lets take a look at the F#1 status speakers, just as you mentioned. They were built BY Scanspeak, using Scanspeak Revelator Designs, IN the Scanspeak buildhouse, using Scanspeak tools (as-in, all the tools are already paid-for). Their specs are slightly different, due to the environmental modifications performed to them as requested by Alpine, but outside of that, they are identical. And the F#1 status unit had that fancy crossover. The very one that was replicated, improved and brought to their Type-X lineup for a fraction of the price. Its a blinged up passive version of an active crossover. Whoop.

Hell, you can still go to pacparts and buy replacement units, at a fraction of the RRP.

So to 'sum it' up, you can pay $1.5k for the Revs, or $4.5k for the Alpines. The difference? Markup, crossover and a waterproof coating spray.

If you build 'in-house', you have the cost to tool up, for each line of units that you produce. So yeah, its expensive. If you use a pre-existing buildhouse, there is no cost at all, because they are already tooled up. So thats just markup. Custom drivers are only expensive based on what technology you add to it. I know, I have 2-pairs. Its not expensive if you dont 'add' any technology. In fact, its very cheap.

And the next person who tells me that I'm paying for 'hand-made' speakers, needs to indicate to me what about it is hand-made? John from AE 'hand-makes' all his speakers, and those things are serious kick-ar$e technology for only $100 a piece. Hell, every speaker is 'hand-made', because someone puts them all together. Even the cheapest ones. Dont believe me? Try reconing using a machine.

Car Audio is bull$hit expensive. Too much so. You're entitled to question what value you're getting, when you hand over your cash. 'Exclusitivity' justification is based on supply and demand. I can demand more, when I supply less, even though something like the Scanspeak is readily available, because mine has 'exclusive' tied to it.

[~Spyne~]

n00b question...who is/are AE?

[Luke352]

Some of the cleanest (low distortion) drivers on the market, with good excursion, FR, and power handling.

http://www.aespeakers.com/

[Matt VIP]

Acoustic Elegance

shheesh, damn noobs.

[xMplar]

two al above we have a few saets here already and well i have listened to sum of the supposedly best of thebest and also the expensive type speakers around and to tell you the truth i love these ad mm not cause we sell them but because of how they sound im not going to get into a technical playgrouind war with all the keyboard jockys who consistantly try to say im lying or im full of it or wateva the proof is in the pudding out of all the speakers we have sold from AD we have had one unhappy customer because he blew his when tuning from full gains downwardss

as for ppl trying to say i dont back the claims of the spewakers well our sales figures beg to differ im not going to get into a debet about weather they are good or bad i personally love them the sets we have sold the ownders loved them over the others they heard which were all 5000$ plus big name brand speakers w

im not going to tell you to buy them all ill say is do your self a favour and listen to them if you can as you may just find that once again when i say they are good that im right same as i was with teh rest of the AD speakers

im not in the habit of lying or saying half truths or boasting and wat ppl think is boasting is just confidence

when you have always had supurb quality ound it is generally easy to know what is good and wat isnt

and well MM is the best AD make and the 600r is farkin unreal so make your own desicion buy them dont buy them its all the same to me i always am ostanded at the endless cynisicim on this forum instead of just going and listening to sumthine lets jusdge it on how it looks and on who sells

and he cant spell o type well so they cant be good

fark sake ppl get a grip on su,m reality im trying to tell you these speakers are good do yourself a favouir and have alisten

that is it mods please close thread as flame wars just shiiiit me to tears

Ren
xMplar

[~thematt~]

xMplar, on Feb 22 2010, 02:53 PM, said:

....im not going to get into a technical playgrouind war with all the keyboard jockys who consistantly try to say im lying or im full of it or wateva

keyboard jockey? i like that....

No one said you're lying. We're simply asking for justification on the price besides 'the distributor thinks they sound good'.

Quote

that is it mods please close thread as flame wars just shiiiit me to tears

Why? Its not even your thread? And from what I can see, everyone else is being quite civil in their discussions about the topic. Its not even heated.

Its like storming out of debate club because the other team disagrees and you've got no comeback other then "your mama"

[Woody]

I think people would take you more seriously if you just made a tiny little effort in making your posts readable. Honestly, if prospective customers can't understand what your writing do you think that might be a massive hinderance in the business process?? Do the emails you write to people you do business with, read the same as your posts here?

At first, we took the piss... cause its the internet. Thats what we do. Then people tried to help by suggesting programs you can use etc to try and get your posting going good. But you didnt take the advice or change your posting habits in any way.

In the long run, we all just want to read about different gear and opinions which we just can't do with you.

Now your suggesting that people are bagging your gear because of your inability to write a comprehensive post. Its just not the right way to go about doing business.

If you don't take peoples advice and try to make your posts better then what has happened in this thread will only continue. Its unfortunate but thats the way it is.

The internet is ruthless. Its just a fact of life.

Now how about some pictures of the gear in the car that you heard it in?? As I said previously, one would assume the install would be pretty sweet given its a 3K set of speakers...

Wood

[Chaos]

aSomehow I'm not sure that 'keyboard jockey' works... I think you mean 'keyboard warrior' Ren. From what i've read (possibly not reading between the lines) this discussion has been quite civilised and educated (yay!). There's no need for butthurt. A spellchecker, however? Yes, yes there is. Or even just less vodka. Either would be nice.

Finally, I also had not heard of AE. I am glad that this is no longer the case. I can shed my n00b skin now.

[Gonadman2]

Why would you close the thread? I don't see a flame war here? I have seen some very good discussion on a lot of speakers that are highly regarded in SQ circles. I have also learnt a lot about what 'should' make a great speaker.

This is the SQ forum and I think its fair that people are able to criticise speakers based on their technical merits, in just the same way as the SPL forum does about subwoofers. Noone is flaming anyone, but there sure is a fair bit of criticism directed at a set of speakers that some of you are passionate about. Its good that you're passionate, but just like a Holden or Ford fanboi, turning a blind eye based on brand could dupe you out of an even better speaker set.

xmplar, I think you've missed the point with what quite a few people are saying here, and that is that car audio speakers CAN be overpriced compared to other speakers/drivers available to consumers. I'm sure the AD set that we are discussing here is going to be a terrific sounding set. However, there is also a good chance that there are quite a few other drivers out there available to consumers that offer more technology and better sound at a lower price. Whether a customer wants the convenience of crossovers and a set of speakers designed for car audio use for $3k, it is up to them to decide. Why do you feel that they are not able to be informed about better technologies here when compared against this set?

[xMplar]

i dont i have no issue about people talking about the gear infact i do encourage it im not going to change how i post this is how i type its bad i know but the spell checker thigs i have put opne dont seem to want to work probably my computer however

it seems alot of peopl from start to finish doubt everything i have ever said about any of the products we have released or sell which by our sales is just not the case as for the car i heard these in ill try to see if i can get pics or a vid as its in a customers 911GT3 so its not easy to ask for the stuff

all i can say is debet to your hearts content on weather you should spend whatever on speakers for people who have spoken to me in person they no im nothing like representing on this forum and sumtimes my osts come off badly casue of how i type

thats just the way it is we will be putting these speaskers up for reveiw purposes soon and then you can all read what they are like untill then like all the AD gear you weill just have to take my word for it or ask anyone on here who has purchase AD speakers in the past on what they are like weather they are value for money etc

im just a little sick of people telling me to do this or that about my typeing and spelling you dont want to read it dont im not going to change it i do the best i can if its not good enuf then too badd

enuf said on that for me

il like the fact that these speakers are compared against the best available as if you have heard any of the AD range they are fantastic and these MM range are twice or even thrice as good as the normal seire trend and 100 series of AD speakers and by that resoning and the other technolagy used in them they are really ver very good

you can download the info from the AD site here is linky for the catalouge which will give you as much info as i can
http://www.audiodevelopment.it/

Ren
xMplar

[Woody]

Didnt even get past the second paragraph....

Woody

[~Spyne~]

xMplar said:

thats just the way it is we will be putting these speaskers up for reveiw purposes soon and then you can all read what they are like untill then like all the AD gear you weill just have to take my word for it or ask anyone on here who has purchase AD speakers in the past on what they are like weather they are value for money etc

Should have kept reading Woody, he almost got a well written sentence out. 2 minor spelling mistakes and a couple of commas and it would be perfectly acceptable.

[jas]

Ren from xMplar

I have a hard time understanding and comprehending your posts.

Maybe it would be best to get someone else to post your onbehalf.

At $3k for a set of component speakers, YOU will need to communicate with the age group that can afford these products. People 25years and above should be your target group (and the rich young chinese group of car audio fans). This requires you to think BEFORE you post, be calm and not "shoot from the hip". We DO expect reasonable grammar and spelling (no sms style please) from a distributor or retailer on this forum.

Why didnt you just answer thematt and muz in a calm reasonable fashion. If you do not know what technology these drivers employ just say so, its easy. I bet your new drivers are just amazing but most of us find it hard to justify $3k for something thats totally unknown. Dynaudio, focal and brax can charge large amounts on reputation alone.....can your products???

Take thsee thoughts and suggestons into consideration before your next post please

Edited by jas, 24 February 2010 - 01:09 PM.

[Chaos]

xMplar, on Feb 23 2010, 12:57 PM, said:

its in a customers 911GT3

What an odd car to be putting an expensive stereo into.

[jas]

Chaos, on Feb 24 2010, 02:21 PM, said:

What an odd car to be putting an expensive stereo into.

i second that

At least its not an RS model.