14 replies to this topic

[jorn]

Hi Guys,

I have come to another stumbling block.

I installed my Crescendo 8.6 last week with dampening mats and Dynamat. The tweeters have been installed temporarily in the dash...going to install them in the A pillar this weekend.

Anyway...i know this question has asked and done to death..but everyone has different opinion and possibly my idea of SQ is alot different to everyone elses.

I finished work early to go buy my SUB - had decided to get an Image Dynamic IDQ 12 V3 ( there is also a v2 on ebay for 300ish delivered) but i thought the V3 would be better i dont have anything to substantiate this claim. Anyhow, i stumbled across a Treo TSI 12 for half price...i questioned the store owner for awhile and he said it was probably on par with the ID...the IDQ is better but he couldnt comment if the difference would be audible as it varies from car, install, sub box etc....thats cool. He said if i wasnt happy i could swap them over anyway....so brought the TREO.

Went home...soldered the wires and put it in a pre-fab box...and listened. Dance music sound good...but RNB was a bit dissappointing...the bass was not deep enough...i like to feel the bass....but i also want a nice clean sound....am i asking too much?

I am running a pdx4.150 so i would be feeding about 300RMS...can i achieve the above deep, clean and UMPF? I know there are a number of variables - Sub, Box design and Power.

Would i be correct in thinking that if i were to change to the IDQ then there may be improvements but not by much?

Do I really need to get more power, better sub and a ported box?

Whats the missing in my equation.

[shizzle]

Hyea,

I would say a good starting point would be to list the box tyoe and dimensions (or litres) you are using.

The power seems about right for the woofer, it does look like an 'entry' level sub at first glance (I stand to be corrected). You may need 2 of these to get some real bass, especially if you have a sedan (also could be useful explaining what car you have and how it is setup).

I had 2 x Polk DB subs in a sealed enclosure in a Magna, feeding them around 800w of power, and was happy with the bass. 1 x 12" would have not been enough though, so perhaps that could be the problem.

[jorn]

standard prefab box...so 1.2??

its going in a pathfinder...

[shizzle]

Before getting too depressed mate, I would suggest making the correct box for the woofer. If I get some time tomorrow, I will model it in Bassbox pro, and let you know what it says the optimal sized sealed enclosure is. A prefab box never really gives excellent results, so don't throw in the towel just yet

Also, maybe someone here knows the bets sized box.

[{Chips}]

Port that Treo now!

On a more serious note, I dare say the pre fab sealed box is where your problem lies. I have Always preferred Treo woofers in a ported enclosure.

I'm going to say somewhere around 1.75-2cubic foot tuned to 35Hz will be the goer without modeling it up.

Edited by {Chips}, 29 May 2010 - 12:55 AM.

[Pulse-R]

I do think the treo prefers a larger box, but almost definitely the prefab will be not so good.

once again, what are the box dimensions, and where is it installed? moving the box only 6" to one side or turn it around can make a huge difference.

[jorn]

so you guys recommend building a new ported box first and not return the sub for an IDQ?

would i loose SQ going to ported? i think i will give it a go first...
shame i've forgotten all my highschool maths i cant calculate volume haha

[jorn]

one more question,
if i builld a bigger box can to try it sealed first...if i dont like it can i just stick a port in it or the design completely different?

the website recommends sealed 1.2 cu ft f3=38hz (what does the F3 mean)
my prefab is 1cu foot aeropro box - too small?

ported 1.5 cu ft net, 12 sq in vent, 14.5 in long. f3 = 33.2hz

can someone cypher the meaning?
thanks!

Edited by jorn, 29 May 2010 - 09:49 AM.

[{Chips}]

IMO Treos in a sealed box regardless of size always sound like you described in the first post. Nice and punchy, with a good top end, but they lack output on the low end.

In a ported enclosure they gain that low end output you are looking for but still maintain that nice punchy top end as well.

I have found Treos recommended enclosure sizes to be pretty good. 1.5cuft nett is the internal volume of the box without taking into account any displacements (like woofer and port). 12sq in vent, 14.5in long refers to the port. They recommend a port with 12sq" of opening area that is 14.5" deep. the F3 is the -3dB response point of the enclosure in an open space. This will change once you get it in a car.

If you list the maximum dimensions of the area you are willing to sacrifice for a sub enclosure one of us will be able to help you with the design.

[Pulse-R]

1 cu.ft box

subtract the woofer's volume, leaves about 0.7 to 0.8 cu.ft. that's too small.

I suggest make a box sealed 1.6, then put the woofer in and try it.
or start with 2cu.ft and try it sealed and then ported

Edited by Pulse-R, 30 May 2010 - 11:47 AM.

[syd-monster]

+1 - build a better box.
- strap or hold the box down tight, that low end R&B bass you mention (for the lack of better description) is felt rather than heard. So the more eneregy transfer the sub/box combo can put into the car the better that type of music will seem to you.
- feed it more power, 300WRMS for what your after, really isnt enough.
- keep the box sealed.

[jorn]

thanks for all the replies i really appreciate it.

if i was to build a box, it wont be til next weekend...

i wouldnt feel comfortable holding onto the sub for longer than a week...if i am going to swap it for another sub.

so ultimately...should i swap the sub? not sure whether im being a snob or not but the TSi is an entry level sub - am i asking to much?

or should i really give a go...rock songs sounds really good, but the rnb with the deep bass sounds quite dissappointing.

[Pulse-R]

it really depends on where your ultimate goals lie.. in a similar price bracket, most subs have similar potential for performance.

too many times, people have poor performance and blame it on the cheap sub they have purchased.

I had 2 different boxes before I got it right, and then spent 2 years learning about the sound to get the tuning right. also, you need to allow up to 100 hours of operation befor the sub settles in.. often the sound will smooth out and deepen with time.

[{Chips}]

Don't give up on the Treo woofer yet. If you feel bad about hanging onto the woofer for a bit longer give the shop a call and tell them you want to build a new box for it but wont be able to for another week.

I do think that you will really like that woofer in a properly designed and constructed ported enclosure.

[blanketman]

those treo do sound good
as simon says
they need time to break them in
i remeber installing them and sounded average but after about a week of listening it started to sound really good