22 replies to this topic

[shizzle]

Heya,

I have done a search, but cannot find an article I read a while back, probably because I am not using the correct terminology.

Basically, I want to run some 8"'s in my car, to keep with the waveguides (15", 8" & waveguides only)
Now, without going crazy, the easiest place to put these are in the doors (they need a 24L enclosure).

My question is this. I want to run them up to around 1kHz, where the guides will take over. IF I put these in the door, would this cause a problen to the staging and height? I know below a certain frequnecy there is not a problem if the speakers are low, but will frequencies below 1kHz that are off-axis cause a problem and bring down the stage?

If so, what freq. can you safely play up to, before it starts to effect the soundstage? I know some ppl have made floor pods, facing up, but I think these only play to around 250Hz?

Any help is appreciated,
Thanks.

[~Spyne~]

meh, my midbass are in the doors, pretty off-axis and they play up to ~3khz
height and depth are pretty good in my car (according to the judges)

it's not ideal, but it can work

[shizzle]

Cool, that makes me a bit happier. Just checked my doors. They are around 40L, which is more than enough for what I need. They are also solid as hell, and only have one service hole (and one small hole) so should make decent enclosures.

I could mount my midbass facing upwards a bit to maybe raise the soundstage too. It would also make my install alot neater, as I could then remove my kicks, and move my waveguides over a bit

[syd-monster]

Hmmm... please investigate the midbass in the kick's. 1. theill effect sq staging less, being more on axis and better PLD 2. doors just suck, compared to the solid results you get from working hard to get them in the kicks. I know HQ doors a pretty sturdy, but the same effort you will put in a sealed enclosure in the doors, would yield just as good if not better kicks.

I think they will make a difference since from about 300Hz you can start to locate positioning. True the 1k to 3Khz band is the ultra critical area, but down to 300Hz it does make a difference. You can tune around it, but why create a system that requires so much ovetuning, when a physically better set up system tunes better too...

something to think about.

[shizzle]

Yup, I wil into the kicks more. Problem is, I have made the biggest possible kicks I can currently, and they are around 12L.
I need at least 24L to get a nice flat response from 100hz to 1kHz, and there is no way I can get dbl the volume in the kicks. I could investigate an AP enclosure, that goes into the metal behind the kicks, and into the front fender area.
Doors would be the easiest though, as it would only need a little bit of work to make the doors 'enclosurers'.
I know kicks are really nice though, as the pathlength difference is also smaller

Thanks for the advice though, WTF can't anything in audio be easy!

Edited by shizzle, 13 June 2010 - 12:01 AM.

[br85]

Go with the kicks. Losing a db or 2 @ 100hz is nothing compared to trying to overcome ratting window mechs and actuators. Besides, that's what eq is for

[shizzle]

Heya,

Yup, maybe kicks are a better option. I love the sound from my current ones, it would just mean a new set, which is not the end of the world.

Below is a graph, red line is 40l box, yellow is 12l box. Not really much of a difference at all, especially considering I can cross my sub around 100Hz.

 Woofer.jpg   47.24K   0 downloads

The same dip occurs at around the 900Hz range on both model. I would cross these slightly lower, but the HU I am using only crosses the highs from 1kHz and up (suppose they meant for tweeters and not waveguides).
Still, nothing I could not EQ out with the onboard parametric I dont think.

[syd-monster]

also remeber you have the advantage in a older car like the HQ's, because of how much metal is available, that you can couple the driver, which extends responce down low. Plus like you said, the EQ can be a saviour, but don't rely on it.

[shizzle]

@syd-monster - By couple, do you mean by bolting it to the body of the car, or by venting the kicpanel into the spaces behind it?

thanks

[syd-monster]

How you get the 12+Lt of space is up to you & is all good.
But by coupling, yeah I mean so that is it coupeled to the body. That is the better you can get the driver so that is held as best as tight as possible (and in your case some how to the car), the better the bottom end responce is. Decoupling a driver works just as good, but in kicks & with larger drivers I have found its better to couple the driver as best as you can.

[shizzle]

Aaaaah, cool, thanks for clearing that up. I will keep that in mind when designing/bolting them to the car

[Pulse-R]

my floor pods play up to 900Hz without any problem.

in the doors is ok, but you may have to 'tune' them to get the right sound off-axis.

The main problem you would expect is that the midrange from the opposite side will be richer than the near-side due to beaming.

[shizzle]

Cool, thanks for the info, once I get "the speakers" I will see if they can fit either in kickpanels or floorpods. The doors can be the absolute last resort.

[BMWTurbo]

Any reason why you can't 'vent' the kick panel?

[shizzle]

Heya,

Nope, none at all. By vent, do you mean port, or vent into a cavity behind it, to increase the volume?

I was thinking about an AP enclosure, but not sure I can find an airtight cavity behind the kickpanel.
There is however a nice space that goes into the front guards behind the kicpanel, that I could vent to, but that would make it almost IB in effect (unless I put an AP between the kick and the guard.