114 replies to this topic

[Langas]

I have a few gripes with our local Adelaide retailers...

1. They are VERY pricey. When I compared a local Adelaide retailer on my focals to a VERY reputable NSW based retailer there was over $120 difference in price. I ordered them from the reputable retailer in NSW (no prizes to guess who I'm talking about), and they arrived the NEXT DAY with free freight!

2. Service with a smile? I think NOT. I have been into Tonkins a few times and each time the service has left so much to be desired its not funny. I practically had to beg to have a listen to some speakers....and spent the grand total of 2 mins doing so....The sales guy seemed more interested in solitaire or whatever it was he was doing.

3. When I ask for a price on a product and its 30 bucks MORE than autobarn 2 minutes down the road....where do you honestly think I'm going to go? I'm a student, not a millionaire.

4. I recently approached a particular Adelaide based retailer on a bulk group buy of Dynamat. I thought I'd be able to get 10 ordered or so together for it.....He was keen on it, but then the price he quoted was almost $50 bucks more than the shelf price in Autobarn.....I'm going to have a hard time convincing people to spend that much more for the same thing just to support a local business. If your honestly not interested, thats fine, just say so!

[jay590]

i try to support the local market where possible. but im just an apprentice. and to get the headunit i want it will cost me double the price over here to buying overseas. everything else im happy to buy here in ausstralia even if i have to pay an extra $100 or so

[cnidus]

i try to support the local market where possible. but im just an apprentice. and to get the headunit i want it will cost me double the price over here to buying overseas. everything else im happy to buy here in ausstralia even if i have to pay an extra $100 or so

I have to say... I completely agree with marty, When the difference is reasonably marginal... But at the moment, that is far from the case.

For instance, I just bought a full system online. I went to several local dealers, investigated purchasing locally and quite frankly... I'm not prepared to pay triple the cost for identical products. I'm an electronic engineer by trade and install all the gear myself.. To me, that's half the fun anyway.

I don't think this is the fault of the dealers... I believe the problem lies further up the chain, artificially inflating prices in one market because they can get away with it.

Like it or not, it's a global market these days, several industries are having trouble coming to terms with this fact: the recording/movie industry for instance. But in the end, I think there will always be a place for specialists, just perhaps not in retail sales of gear. As you rightly pointed out, all the value is in the install and service you provide.

I work in IT as a vmware specialist, I sell my skills as services... I know what it's like for the market to become flooded with cheaper but arguably inferior quality professionals (often from overseas). There are two choices in this situation that I can see: elevate your skill level and let your reputation speak for itself or change fields into an area where there is less competition or where the skills are better appreciated.

Edit: I'm not having a go at your skill level or anything. I've seen the quality of your work, it's incredible...

Retail sale of products is always going to be about cost... Sure there are other concerns, but realistically, that is usually the deciding factor....

Edited by cnidus, 14 November 2010 - 12:18 PM.

[bsyde]

cnidus- The next problem will be, If retail dies within the car audio industry in our country, installation prices will have to sky rocket for these specialists to keep going. This in a lot of cases, is already, in peoples minds to much and wont pay it.

It has been said before, but is not cheap to run a shop of any sort and a car audio shop is no different, rent, wages, tools etc. Retail helps keep things going along side the labour costs and without some support for it, I can see more and more specialist shops closing the doors or the public paying alot higher rate for the work done or just having to go to a chain store and living with the install that they get dished up in their pride and joy

[icacha]

internet stores are someones bedroom with a pc running ordering stock as they require it and on-sell for little margin cause his mum is picking up the overheads.

[sneh]

Its funny how the general public whinge to no end about the price of anything automotive, but dont bat an eyelid at the prices of doing anything to a house for example.

Look at wages in the Automotive trade, they are the lowest of any trade there is. When I started my apprenticeship 13yrs ago, I was on $160 a week after tax, compared with a friend who was a first year carpenter, who took home over $400 a week. A friend who worked full time at maccas was taking home $250 a week doing the same hours. Its a joke.

[Fhrx]

One peculiar trend I have observed over the years is people’s mindset towards automotive workers. Many people wouldn't go to the cheapest cardiologist they can find when they have a heart problem, however they will happily leave their pride and joy in the hands of the cheapest installer they can find.

Now I appreciate that hearts and stereos are poles apart but you know where I'm coming from.

[jaykan2k]

Can't read on anymore without getting annoyed so ill throw in my 2 cents

In my opinion, if you’re comfortable buying overseas and willing to take the chances doing it, do it.
I for one couldn’t be bothered waiting for packages, chasing up freight forwarders, taking time away from the office to pick up a package etc for something I can walk / drive into a store and buy in the area. I think everyone's time is worth more than a $100-$200 price difference on a product especially when the **** hits the fan.

Do I think that the prices stores charge for installation is expensive?? YES. I would be a fool to say that it wasn’t.
However, do I think that it is WORTH it?? I most certainly do believe that it is.



I used to frequent Hakki @ Crankin Car Audio and used to be amazed at how much care, devotion, accountability and pride these guys put into their work. Marty had accounted for all these factors in his original post but I felt the need to reiterate them. Even when the job was done, all these local guys would ensure that the job that they had performed were to perfection. I personally believe that this service and support easily outweighs a discount from an overseas vendor whose sole interest would be to move through their stock holding in a timely manner.



Punch line is, you get what you pay for. Skimp on the costs now and chances are that later down the track you will end up paying for it one way or another.

[NUTSACK]

I think alot of people are getting confused about buying products online or the price for quality local service. I have never spoken to anyone from FHRX but there reputation on here and other sites speaks for itself,but...to most people these days it has come down to trying to save as much money as we can whilst still enjoying the things we love.

Picture this, i have 2k to spend on a full system for my new car and want a quality install with quality components. Now i buy all the gear from the guy who will do the install for $1800 & the labour is $600, that blows my budget and i then have to sacrifice either quality gear or a quality install which will in turn make the good gear seem crap anyway. This is where it gets down to it, i can buy the splits & amps etc from a reputable O/S seller & have it delivered for $1400 & pay for the quality install and keep it to my budget and sacrifice nothing really, so why wouldn't i want to do this?? Ye maybe if a speaker fails i have to send it back and it's a bit of a drama but what if nothing ever fails, you've got the system you want for the price you could afford. I feel the Aussie retailers put to much of a mark up on items and then play the "support local" card when they see people going elswhere, actually where do the "local shops" buy there gear from?

This isn't my case at the moment but it just gives another perspective, and i know retailers are trying to make a living but the people who work there asse off everyday and might be struggling a bit shouldn't have to give up the few things they enjoy if they can get a good deal somewhere and still support the local shop by using them for the install and smaller items etc.. I'm more Aussie than Bob Hatfield eatin a meat pie at smoko but if i see 2 identical products and the 1 from O/S is half the price delivered to my door it's going to be very hard to resist.

FHRX - please don't take this as having a go at you guys, it was a generalisation of whats happening everywhere these days and just a customers point of view and i do agree about people leeching off you and then taking all there business elswhere.

[rob323]

Here's another scenario to consider then.

If everyone were to buy their gear from OS, then retailers/ installers are not going to bother to stock any of it (and why should they, they hardly make a living from the profits from selling it anyway). Then they can downsize their operation to different premises with cheaper rent, not have to worry about having a nice air conditioned showroom and not have to worry about cash flow to pay their accounts for the stock that they carry for people to look at and listen to.

Where are you going to go to decide what gear you want when this happens.

In actual fact, what would happen is that the installers, to help compensate for the small profit they make on the gear itself, will have to put up their rates otherwise they may as well just shut up shop completely and then no-one is any better off.

Personally, I like to have the assurance that I can feel my steel cap work boot sliding up someone's rectum when they stuff me around. Emails just don't give me the same satisfaction.

[Gobbledok]

I feel the Aussie retailers put to much of a mark up on items and then play the "support local" card when they see people going elswhere, actually where do the "local shops" buy there gear from?

Sorry to say it Mr Nut Sack, but that is a clear indication that you simply have no idea. It is a comment I would expect to hear from the same type that go to Today Tonight or A Current Affair and complain that a kilo of apples is 7c cheaper at a supermarket 52km away as opposed to their local...

[NUTSACK]

Sorry to say it Mr Nut Sack, but that is a clear indication that you simply have no idea. It is a comment I would expect to hear from the same type that go to Today Tonight or A Current Affair and complain that a kilo of apples is 7c cheaper at a supermarket 52km away as opposed to their local...

You might want to read the post again and rethink your answer. Just to help you out i will outline the bit i am talking about. I said that my comments were not directly aimed at FHRX but retailers in general, what actually came to mind while i was typing was infact Gerry Harvey so i may have come across as a bit harsh because his latest comments brushed me the wrong way. If i can purchase product "X" at $100 delivered why does it cost me $200 from a local store, wouldn't they get it cheaper than the $100 landed with there buying power, so that to me is over 100% mark up which is why people WILL & DO purchase off shore. It's kind of a case of don't shoot the messanger here as i was only giving an opinion and i'm not a fan that Aussies are being forced to shop O/S but it's a fact and it will continue to go that way while stores buy there gear O/S rip us off with the price then whinge when we jack up and take action.
This has nothing to do with the price of a service for labour etc so don't get it confused and perhaps it's the larger stores throughout Australia causing this increase of online shopping.
Like i said i'm not happy with it either but it is happening and something needs to be done to encourage us to shop locally because like the above post it will turn out there will be no where to go and audition equipment in the future and with rising fuel, food, smokes & alcohol costs people will look to save when they can.

[Gobbledok]

Common pricing structures have been explained numerous times.

A simple (not absolute) example - It costs $100 offshore because the bloke you're buying it from is storing it in his garage, shed, bedroom or (insert spare room name here) - or just a simple boutique warehouse.
It costs $200 at a local store because that store is operating a workshop with fitters. Fitters get wages, superannuation, bonuses etc. For that workshop there is also liability insurance, tool budgets, consumables etc. There is also a showroom, where stock must be on display (and fitted of course... theres the fitter again) and salesmen do their job. Salesmen also get wages, super, (sometimes phones, cars etc) Not to mention building rent, rates, utilities, website hosting, phones just to name a few. There is so much more that is involved when running a shop, you cant just say why does it cost so much.

It costs people (Like Marty for example) serious money to run a business where they are passionate about helping their customers and the only way to fund that operation is by making margin on their product sales. Industry professionals try so hard to defend themselves against this growing trend of 'markup accusation' and every time they do someone just pops up saying they can get it cheaper elsewhere.

/End possible incoherent rant.

[NUTSACK]

Ye i understand exactly what you're saying but for the local joe wanting to buy something all these overheads don't even come into consideration and if they see that product alot cheaper somewhere else they automaticly think the other shop is trying to rip them off. From what i can tell these blokes won't have to worry about closing there doors anytime soon due to there quality work and the fact that they are willing to help people out and not try and get every dollar they can out of someone. The point of my post was mainly a realistic view of how people think & shop these days. Hopefully soon i will be able to praise the good work of these fellows myself as i won't be cutting any corners with my install and i'll be willing to make the 6 hour drive and stay a few nights to sample there work.
I could of probably chosen a less controversial topic for my first post, haha

[Gobbledok]

All good mate. Its just unfortunate that there are still so many people out there that just wont listen, wont accept the reality and go home at the end of the day believing that they know better than the people that are actually doing their bit...

[icacha]

all these "buy overseas fcukwits" will always have something to complain about. they'll probably complain more when the inderpendant specialist stores close their doors and tell everyone to fcukoff cause they've had enough of wankers coming in with fit only jobs for them or the labour rates will either sky rocket...

[mad89]

the people who work there asse off everyday and might be struggling a bit

Please tell us how car stereo installers/specialist retailers/etc are different to "the people who work their asses off everyday and might be struggling a bit"?

In actual fact, what would happen is that the installers, to help compensate for the small profit they make on the gear itself, will have to put up their rates otherwise they may as well just shut up shop completely and then no-one is any better off.

Exactly. But that will just give the majority of people one more thing to complain about. First the gear was too expensive, so you went and bought it cheaper over seas. As a result of this, now the labour charge is too expensive to make up the losses from the gear. Why don't you go email your overseas dealer and get your gear installed there? With the Australian dollar so good, its probably cheaper there too, right?

Oh wait a minute...

Congratulations, you've just contributed to the demise of specialist retailers/installers in Australia.

[Fhrx]

Amen.

Just to expand of one of Rick’s points; I need to ask a serious question because I'm actually becoming more and more intrigued as I read on. Where do some of you get the idea that us car audio shop owners are all millionaires? One could put it down to simple ignorance but I know many of you are not that foolish. Therefore; on what basis do you make the assumption that we don't have mortgages ourselves and instead can actually afford to work for next to nothing?

[Max_Power]

Could someone please explain why, given the recent value of the Aussie dollar, it has become much more viable for people to buy goods from overseas, but the price of these same goods on Australian shelves hasn't decreased at all? If it has become cheaper for end consumers to buy from overseas, then shouldn't it also be cheaper for the retailers to import the goods and then pass on the savings to the consumer? It might not be a directly proportionate reduction in price if you want to keep an identical dollar value profit margin on the product and what not, but logically I would think the Aussie retailer should be able to reduce the prices somewhat. Seems to me that given our strong dollar at the moment there's some middle man who's making an extra profit for himself. Then again I'm not a retailer nor an economist so I may be missing something.

Btw I'm not asking why is it generally more expensive to buy locally as has been covered in the above few posts, but rather why don't aussie retailers vary the pricing of imported goods along with exchange rates.

I'd also like to add that the retail marketplace is not what it used to be 10 or 15 years ago and it's going to be a fruitless endeavor trying to convince the entire population of the value of buying locally and the downsides of buying directly from overseas. We are a far too greedy, selfish and materialistic (and ignorant) society and we have never wanted to squeeze more value out of a dollar than we do now. So as long as there's an option to somehow buy something cheaper, a good portion of people will take it without fully considering the effects.

I think the most retailers can do is to continue to adapt to the changing environment. I admit that I don't envy you specialty car audio shop guys and what you have to compete against, but it's inevitable that things will continue to change as more and more people discover the benefits of online shopping. And you're gonna have to deal with it in a much bigger way than expressing your thoughts to a tiny portion of the population on an internet forum, the majority of which already agrees with you.

Edited by Max_Power, 22 January 2011 - 03:41 AM.

[Fhrx]

but rather why don't aussie retailers vary the pricing of imported goods along with exchange rates.

I think you mean Aussie importers as opposed to retailers but I understand your point and just between you and I; it's a question I too have raised on the quiet more than once...

Edited by Fhrx, 22 January 2011 - 08:02 AM.

[268669♫]

Thats where the importers get away with murder. Because the aussie dollar has only recently reached parity the importers can say they bought their current stock when the dollar was less.
Then once the dollar goes back down again they can then say the new stock was only recently purchased after the dollar went down.
Both these arguments justify to them why they can keep their prices high or not go down in price.

The reality is that importers buy a lot of stock when the dollar is good because they know they will make more profit which they dont have to pass on. The only way to get the savings passed onto the retailers and consumers is for the dollar to stay high for about a year.

Ant

[NUTSACK]

Please tell us how car stereo installers/specialist retailers/etc are different to "the people who work their asses off everyday and might be struggling a bit"?



Exactly. But that will just give the majority of people one more thing to complain about. First the gear was too expensive, so you went and bought it cheaper over seas. As a result of this, now the labour charge is too expensive to make up the losses from the gear. Why don't you go email your overseas dealer and get your gear installed there? With the Australian dollar so good, its probably cheaper there too, right?

Oh wait a minute...

Congratulations, you've just contributed to the demise of specialist retailers/installers in Australia.

No one said they were any different and if they have any business sense at all they will be doing what they can to save on costs aswell and thats all the customer is doing but its obviously wrong for us to do it but ok for retailers. I don't know why the few are having at go at me, is it because i've pointed out what is happening and gave another side of the story?? If you read my posts properly i don't ever say that im buying all my gear O/S so people need to relax or is it a case of i have to agree with everyone on here and do as they want. Another thing you need to remember is that we don't see all the behind the scenes stuff, all we see is the price so you can't expect the majority to have compassion or care for the man behind the counter because thats the last thing anyone thinks of if they are buying a computer,amp,sox or whatever it may be. Remeber where i said my post was about retailers in general and not just you guys. Heres what i'm talking about, last week at Harvey Norman i went to buy an A/C, rrp was $2k but without blinking an eye he dropped the price & i walked out of there and paid $1300, now tell me theres not a huge mark up and this is what the average man sees everyday. while it may not be fair to tar every retailer with the same brush it is what the average punter will do.It may be hard for you guys to accept but people only worry and think about there situation at the time. hopefully this clears a few things up and people can relax and discuss the topic and realise i'm only giving another side, be it right or wrong it's how it is.

[perrin_07]

sometimes you have a bad experience buying locally with whatever the product so you will go elsewhere, this is normal. i admit i have bought a few things off ebay, only 1 thing has come from a business and the other couple of things were just from "a guy"(not all audio). Being an apprentice, it can(and was) be really really tough with pay. yes that extra $50 is alot when your on HALF what alot of other people are on. unfortunatly its not all black and white. i would love to buy everything locally, unfortunaly not everything can be bought local so you have to go elsewhere.

The hours i work,alot of the time im in bed when the shops are open and awake when everything is shut. So i cant just go "out to the shops" to get it. If i have a good experience with a store, i dont ever ask for a discount nor even look, they are worth the money(when i have it).
im all for supporting local business (the aussie tag is important to me and do search it out wherever possible), but circumstances happen where it affects it.

[mad89]

Firstly; to clarify, i wasn't having a go at you specifically. My post was also a generalisation to add to your generalisation.

Though, to further add to my defense; and to quote your post again (the whole sentence this time), you just differentiated 'retailers' from 'people who work their asses off everyday' as though there was a difference. Thats the point i was trying to highlight. Read your post again. Maybe thats not how you intended it, but its how it would be interpreted by the majority of people.

i know retailers are trying to make a living but the people who work there asse off everyday and might be struggling a bit shouldn't have to give up the few things they enjoy if they can get a good deal somewhere and still support the local shop by using them for the install and smaller items etc..

The second half of my post was also a generalisation and also applies to any sort of installer/labourer, whether it be a mechanic, carpenter, air conditioning installer, electrician, or whatever other service you might require. I can probably go into detail with an example of each of the above too, but i don't think thats necessary.

Edited by mad89, 22 January 2011 - 09:41 AM.

[sidecar44]

Been a very interesting thread....
anyway I went to GCR in Mitcham to look at buying a H/U as they did me a really good deal on a Clarion for the bus so I thought Id do the "right" thing and look at using their services again but sadly the shop is now closed up.
So I now am left to travel to either "Just Blunders" Hifi where the staff really dont give a crap what they sell,go to another "specialist" store less than 5km where the owner is looking how to rape your wallet(not a forum sponser so dont worry or otherwise be left with Repco,Autobarn etc where they really have no clue.....well thats the case around this area.

So as for buying locally.....ummmm at least not today!

[Gobbledok]

Neill, you could always take it to a local back yarder...
You know i'd be happy to give you hand installing your head unit...

Just for reference, we did a 10-15 percent wholesale (which also decreased rrp by the appropriate margin) price decrease across our whole range when the dollar stayed strong for a few months...
What our retailers did is obviously out of our control... so not ALL importers are trying to get away with murder...

[icacha]

Been a very interesting thread....
anyway I went to GCR in Mitcham to look at buying a H/U as they did me a really good deal on a Clarion for the bus so I thought Id do the "right" thing and look at using their services again but sadly the shop is now closed up.
So I now am left to travel to either "Just Blunders" Hifi where the staff really dont give a crap what they sell,go to another "specialist" store less than 5km where the owner is looking how to rape your wallet(not a forum sponser so dont worry or otherwise be left with Repco,Autobarn etc where they really have no clue.....well thats the case around this area.

So as for buying locally.....ummmm at least not today!

don't take this the wrong way, but you're saying that you need someone to hold your hand in regards to buying a headunit that you can't do your own homework in regards to features, etc then walk into a store and purchase one? no point having a go at stores with a weak sauce excuse 'if' you already know what headunit you want and know where to get it. how hard is it to walk into a store and say to the sales staff 'i'll take one of them'? i guess that will depend on how old you are and if mummy or daddy needs to be there by your side to hand over the cash. can you see where im coming from for something so simple as buying a headunit you have already set your heart on? it doesn't matter which store you buy it from as long as they're authorised so you'll have backup incase something goes wrong inside warranty. its cause of your way of thinking the ICE industry is failing in AU.

[mad89]

George, how did you conclude that from his post?

This is what i interpreted it as; he went to support his local specialist shop as a returning customer but they had closed down. He is now only left with chain stores to choose from because he doesn't like his other local specialist (which is fair enough really - he may have had a bad experience or whatever). He wanted to support the local specialist, but couldn't. End.

[audioquest]

Been reading this thread for awhile. What I see, still balls down to dollars and cents we can save. Have we ever wonder in Australia how much we are paid per hour compare to other country. Wages is always the highest expenses or a cost to a company in Australia, be it be a small business or a big business.

How can a local company prices compare to a overseas company selling stuff in the internet where there isn't much operating cost to them and it is also a big saving for the operator. Properly they are operating at home with no overhead to take care off.

What goes around comes around. In the long run we will find more retail business will be closing down without the support from our own. Our friends, relatives and may be members of our family or may be your children losing their jobs or may be you yourself. Just look at our Australian dollars it is on par with the US dollars, many may think Australia is doing so well and rich now because the dollars is appreciating. Personally IMO I don't think so at all, from my point of view it is because of our government is so poor that they can't control it own currency anymore. Basically they can't afford to sell their own dollars to keep it in the 85 mark. Money is just pouring out and basically nothing is coming in. In the long run we are all in deep shxxt and that is no good to our future.

Lets put this in a small scale. I have always been supporting my own local business in my area and I would say majority of it. I would buy what I need and eat my meal in my area and I make it a point. Why? Because I know how a community works. For instant, if I don't show enough support to my community, my small little business in my suburb will start closing down. In a long run shop after shop will start closing down and it will be a empty street in my suburb and property prices will fall. With no trade going on at all, who will turn out or visit this community? If we all do our part, contributing to our own community keep the trade going and the street busy and it will prospers not only that our own property will appreciate and prospers too. That's how my once small little town grow to a city. Indirectly I became richer by spending in my own community.

I make my money here so I spend my money here. I am a Singaporean and I am always back to my country at least half a dozen time a year. Still I don't buy any of my car audio gear in Singapore and Singapore things are alway cheaper and I am still buying all my stuff locally in Australia. Because I want the shop I like to visit will keep its door open. Unless certain thing I can't get it locally, like the mundorf cap from Germany. Guys supporting our local business is very important. Hope you guys understand what I am talking about. Thank you for reading.

Edited by audioquest, 23 January 2011 - 01:25 AM.

[sidecar44]

George you have really missed my point......considering I had the cash to purchase the Pioneer DVH-P5950MP and knew exactly what features I needed etc etc,now personally I went there to SUPPORT this industry more so the small independent operaters that need our support and they have sadly shut up shop.
As for supporting the chains stores....be my guest,but I certainly dont think they need my support nor will they get it.

What part of that dont you get?

Mad knew exactly what I was saying

Now as Mea have some great sponsors....like FCA,Phatt FHRX first thing I did was check their websites but I doubted that they would have stocked this unit as its not a common run of the mill unit nor would I think they stocked any Pioneer.
I went back to CGR's as the old bloke back then was a straight up no bullcrap type and as I knew I wanted the Clarion VZ509A and EVERYWHERE was over $900,including the bigger chainstores.
I dropped in and had my questions asked and answered within a 2 minutes,price of $649 quoted and within 10 seconds had the cash in his till.
So that beckoned a really good question that I never had answered......htf could a "small" store be $250 cheaper than a chainstore with buying power,easy they are just ripping you off blind!
So I wont support them as their bottom line is fat enough from the other sales from TV's,CD's home hifi etc etc where as the "indys" need it most.
Warranty back up thru the big stores is like pulling teeth without laughing gas..........

George please RE-READ thru my post and tell me where I needed help with what to decide with......my groundwork was already done apart from actually finding the unit in the flesh,which I still havnt been able to locate one,but as its Sunday Ill be waiting a day or so to get to keep shopping around till one is located even if means waiting a month or 2 and no tunes in the car.
Tell me do you have that dedication to support your "local" shop?

























btw......mums a crackwhore and dads a Bangkok ladyboy,but boy do they know audio!!!