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Lets Talk Exotic SQ Amps...


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#1 mad89

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 01:46 AM

OK, so heres a random topic that me and a couple of the NSW members of old were discussing a few weeks back ('poisoner' and 'trism' for those of you playing at home ;) lol).

But before we get into it, a couple of ground rules;
1. This IS NOT a thread to discuss or argue whether or not "all amps sound the same" and other off topic stuff.
2. Post your opinions and whatever else you like related to the topic and 'classification' i guess you could say, of the amps. If you feel some of the EXAMPLE classifications below need changing, say so and why, and feel free to add more.
3. Add pics if you like, if you own any of the amps. This is NOT an e-penis contest, but if it ends up being an exotic amp pr0n thread, then hey, im sure we will all get some 'enjoyment' out of it. :P ha! (shiny_car - not too many pics of your Sinfoni collection please, we're all jealous enough already! :D haha!)

And on with the show.

So we were discussing amps the other day. I'll try and keep the intro part pretty brief.

We decided there was a couple of classifications or 'levels', and a couple that fitted those classifications were tossed around as part of the discussion. Note that the EXAMPLES listed below are just ones that were thrown out in discussion off the top of our heads. Feel free to discuss their 'level' or 'placement' below and/or ADD MORE EXAMPLES - with justification/reasoning - thats the idea of the thread ;)

* Entry Level Amps - circa $500?: We know the ones, main stream brands to suit the every day punter. Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer, Clarion, etc.
* Midrange Amps - circa $1000?: Enthusiast choice? Genesis Profile Series, Arc Audio KAR Series, DLS Reference, Alpine PDX, Mosconi AS, Focal FP, Audison SRx, Boston GT, JL Slash etc.
* High End Amps - circa $1500?: Next level enthusiast. Genesis Series III, Sinfoni Amplitude, DLS Ultimate, Audison LRx, Tru Technology Steels, etc.

And this is where the topic of discussion really got interesting, and what this thread is really about. Distinguishing the next level. The no holds barred, no expense spared, ultimate SQ amplifiers that are a clear cut above the rest. Deciding and discussing which ones were worthy proved interesting, especially given their respective prices etc.

Our list included;
* Exotic Amps - $2000+; Audison Thesis, Tru Technology Billets, Alpine F1 Status, Arc Audio Special Edition, Sinfoni Prestigio/Desiderio/etc, Genesis Project 15.

Then there was the mention of the old school amps that are still very highly regarded among enthusiasts; SoundStream Reference, Orion HCCA, PPI Art, etc, and their placement. We discussed and agreed that these amps are no doubt high quality amps that could rival some of todays cheaper entry level amps, would probably see them placed closer to the midrange amps, or just below? There was mention that there is more of a nostalgia thing associated with these amps that makes people want them and hold their value, when there MAY (or may not?) be other better options out there at similar price points.

Anyways, thats all i can remember off the top of my head at this late hour.

Discuss - anything and everything, your thoughts, opinions, what your dream amps are, where certain amps should go in the classification, add more, what makes an exotic amp an exotic amp, etc etc.

#2 scraverX

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 02:28 AM

Seems like this could be a very interesting topic...

At the moment my dream amp would probably be an Audison LRx 5.1k..

That's about all the comment I could make at this time.

#3 shizzle

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 08:02 AM

I love the 'old school' stuff, mainly because its what got me interested in this hobby/obsession back in the early 90's. I remeber my first magazine I ever bought was on a holiday in Germany, a CA&E in '93. I used to gorn over all the installs done in them, wishing I could own the equipment one day.

Top of the list were the Sounstream, Davinci & Tarantula.

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Maybe throw in a Phoenix Gold Amp 'n Stein, and then for pure wank factor, the Rockford Fostgate T15kW.
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The list goes on and on, so I will stop there :)

#4 Matt VIP

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:50 AM

I've always loved the look of this one, although I know sweet fa about it...

Posted Image

#5 mad89

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:04 AM

I dont know if we need a Rockford 15kW amp for Sound Quality :P But i can appreciate it none the less.

Some more to add to the 'Exotic' list; Soundstream Human Reign and DaVinci. Also Brax Graphic Edition.

Edit: Note to self, refresh before replying lol. Thats the SS Human Reign, Matt.

Edited by mad89, 07 January 2011 - 10:06 AM.


#6 shizzle

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:25 AM

On a side note, I think availability makes an amp exotic. This is generally directly related to the price, as the more something costs, the harder it is (for the avergae Joe) to own, hence making it 'Exotic'. I suppose Exotic can also have a direct relationship to build number, like limited editions and what not, again though, generally followed by a higher price tag.

Ps - 15kW going into a IDQ12", now THATS headroom, gauranteed at least 50 000 sq's right there.

#7 ~Spyne~

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 10:26 AM

ultra-high end?

McIntosh MCC404MPosted Image


Milbert Bam-235abPosted Image


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#8 268669♫

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:00 AM

Some very nice amps mentioned already.

After playing with some high end amps in the plus $1500 range and hearing a lot of others in many different cars I have decided to go outside the box for my next amp and have just put an order in for a completely custom built amp. Well an order for the parts, as I will be constructing the amp myself.

Of all the amps in the over $2000 dollar category not many offer full customisation. or just simply an amplifier with no pre controls, which was what I was looking for. This amp does not even have a gain control. :)

The amp modules are Australian designed and made, come from a little place called Holton Precision Audio.

It is an 8 channel design with 4 seperate power supplies.

Rated at 4 x 180wrms @ 4ohms, 2 x 350wrms @ 4ohms and 2 x 550wrms @ 4ohms. Stable to 2ohms each channel with either balanced or unbalanced input.

Amp consists of 4 HPA-Nxv200 modules, 2 HPA-Nxv300 modules, and 2 HPA-Nxv500 modules.

I am going to try and mount them on one big arse aluminium heatsink and enclose the whole unit in glass and aluminium to show of the goodies inside.

Some pics of the modules and a link to the Holton website www.aussieamplifiers.com

Nxv-200 module
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Nxv-300 module
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Nxv-500 module
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Ant

#9 sean

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:04 AM

Sounds like a nice project Ant :)

#10 2LOUD2OLD

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:20 AM

Diamond Audio D7 :)
they certainly asked a hefty price tag new and are beatiful sounding and looking amps, though I could be biased
would love to get my hands on a D7402 one day, 400Wx2 @4ohms yummy, just finding one is the hard part though

though i would also love to try a Diamond Audio D9 amp one day, again gorgeous amps and rare to boot

#11 Matt VIP

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:30 AM

some of them have got a terrible buzz though James. Very hard to fix apparently.... :lol:

#12 2LOUD2OLD

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:39 AM

some of them have got a terrible buzz though James. Very hard to fix apparently.... Posted Image



It's called detail :)

#13 REVNSS.inc

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:40 AM

I really like my Rockford power 1000 25 to life edition, not really uber sq high end, but only 2500 made and apparently retailed for a couple of k here in aus.

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#14 shiny_car

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:42 AM

@ Ant: that's awesome. Should be fun, and rewarding, and definitely innovative on your behalf. :good:

Good thread Rick. Plenty of exotica mentioned here. The Milbert is 'up there' in my books, but looks boring as bat p00h. Cool photo spyne: you need the gloves to strangle someone to acquire one of those amps. :P

I also like a matching series of amplifier. So when I choose, I look for a brand that offers all the amplifier configurations I need.

Amongst my personal lot, I can speak of:

Alpine F1 MRV-F900 4x100WRMS, 2ohm stable, 4-channel; retailed at $3999, but IMHO, not worth that; very clean power and lot of power; big, heavy mofo (15kg); gain-setting only, no xovers; it does what an amplifier does, and that is...amplify, and I suspect the distortion is negligible.

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Sinfoni Prestigio 2x65WRMS, 1ohm stable, 2-channel; retails similarly to the Alpine I believe (no idea if there's any others in Australia?); elegant, not trying to be a power house, but built upon meticulous design, componentry, and execution; I haven't fired it up yet, but if it's going to be better than the other Amplitude and Edition Shadow amps, it will be delightful.

Posted Image

I also like the look of Audison Thesis, and if I had the money, I'd probably go down that road. And I have always admired Tru Technology, especially their older copper models.

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:)

#15 mosoto

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 11:50 AM

Where do you classify Zed?
Then there's Butler, Brax & Helix.

#16 ~Spyne~

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:11 PM

Butler are actually reasonably cheap these days (compared to what i thought they were worth anyways)...TDB475, 4x75wrms, US$799...so i guess midrange.
Brax has been mentioned (ultra high-end), Helix would sit around the mid-high end (depending on what series), and Zed would sit midrange i think (based on price, class-d and there is really nothing overly 'special' about them)...the older Zed might different, but i've no experience with them.

#17 Winno

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:29 PM

I will admit that 'part' of the reason why I have held onto my Phoenix Gold Ti amps despite numerous offers to buy is because of nostalgia - they were the esteemed by many as the pinacle of amplification when I first became seriously interested in car audio.
I do have to admit though, and I'm sure I know of at least one other person who has done the swap, that even by today's standards, there is still something about their actual sound presentation that makes them preferable to some current model amps.

Sure, price, country of origin, some new and 'more efficient' way of doing things, and limited numbers can make an amp, or range of amps be seen as 'exotic', but lets not forget that in the end, you can still pay too much for something 'rare' and have it sound very average.

Edited by Winno, 07 January 2011 - 12:32 PM.


#18 shizzle

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:31 PM

I suppose one has to ask the question, what makes a class high end, mid end and low end. Is it the price or performance? Whereas they sometimes track each other (price vs performance) this is not always the case. I guess its like perfume, you have to ask a rediculous amount for people to think its special.

Then again, some amps are worth paying extra for.

#19 Winno

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:35 PM

I suppose one has to ask the question, what makes a class high end, mid end and low end. Is it the price or performance? Whereas they sometimes track each other (price vs performance) this is not always the case. I guess its like perfume, you have to ask a rediculous amount for people to think its special.

Then again, some amps are worth paying extra for.


And where and who draws these lines?

#20 Winno

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:39 PM

Then again, some amps are worth paying extra for.



To be quite frank, unless I can afford to pay $3000 for example for a new 'high end' amp these days and not even miss the money, I'd prefer to buy old school second hand - I save a bucket load of money but, and this is the main reason why, in many cases I would end up with something I prefer to any new mid to high level amp available today from a performance perspective.

e.g. $500 to $600 for a PG Ti/Extant/PPI vs $1500 or so for an Alpine/RF/JL/etc

Edited by Winno, 07 January 2011 - 12:41 PM.


#21 Fury♫

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 12:44 PM

These amps are almost all Class A/B by the looks.
The only difference is the heatsink and the price :P

#22 scraverX

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 02:13 PM

These amps are almost all Class A/B by the looks.
The only difference is the heatsink and the price :P


Interesting point, even Ant's home made special is A/B going by the manufacturer specs on the modules.

#23 Big_Valven

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 02:22 PM

Which is why personal perception, priorities, desires, thoughts, aspirations... etc come in to it. :)

There are amplifiers I wouldn't spend $1K on because they don't turn me on... there are some that could be double the price they retail for and I'd still drool. Who knows why?

#24 Domza

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:28 PM

I would have to say the Soundstream Human Reign Unleashed series amplifiers, these are the amps I've been looking at for a while now. These are the amps I want to use in my next system, namely the HRU.2 (X2) and the HRU.4 (X1):

Quick specs:

HRU.2
2 channel class A/B
500W X 2 @ 4 ohm RMS / 900W X 2 @ 2 ohm RMS / 1800W X 1 @ 4 ohm RMS (bridged)
THD @ 4 ohm: 0.005%
Frequency response 10hz-40kHz
Signal to noise ratio: 105dB
Damping Factor (100Hz, 4 Ohm) 1,800
Potential Current Draw: 200A

HRU.4
4 channel class A/B
140W X 4 @ 4 ohm RMS / 240W X 4 ohm @ 2 ohm RMS / 480W X 2 @ 4 ohms RMS (bridged)
THD @ 4 ohm: 0.005
Frequency response 10hz-40kHz
Signal to noise ratio: 105dB
Damping Factor (100Hz, 4 Ohm) 1,800
Potential Current Draw: 140A

Soundstream claims that the Human Reign Unleashed series amplifiers have much of the same high quality parts as used in the original Human Reign amplifiers which were regarded as audiophile grade equipment. The obvious change is the heat sink, it seems like they have adapted a low profile design, only when compared to the the the Human Reign of the early days...

Power wise, there is more than enough power to amplify most high end speakers drivers and subwoofers and this is further backed up by the robust high current power supply, HRU.2 (200A) HRU.4 (140A) respectively. Also you can use the same series amplifiers in the one system without sacrificing quality in any area (speakers & subwoofer), as an example of my proposed system:

Active 3 way...
HRU.4: Tweeters and midrange
HRU.2: Midbass
HRU.2: Subwoofer

That's my thoughts on the topic, but just by looking at the other recommendations and opinions here, there is such a wealth of audiophile gear to choose from, I guess it will come down to peoples individual opinions on the cosmetics of the amplifier, but at this level they all look so damn nice...

Domza.

#25 bsyde

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:43 PM

Ill always have a soft spot for the Orion HCCA 150R i owned in the mid to late 90's i think it was, an upgrade form the cobalts amps i started off with.

It was basicaly a HCCA 225 and HCCA 250 in one chassis and heaps more power than its rated 150w total thanks to .5 ohm stability which was important back then because competition classes were power related

#26 shiny_car

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:31 PM

DLS Ultimate TA2 2-channel amp also looks interesting, and fits into the 'exotic' category. Are there any in Australia? RRP close to $3K. Tube preamp (solid state/transistor output stage). Highly favoured SQ amp in Europe.

http://dls.se/en/car...?produkt=en_209
http://www.mobileele...tube-amplifier/

Posted Image

Would be nice to have an array of Ultimate amps in a car. 8)

:)

#27 peaandham

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 07:37 PM

I have always admired Tru Technology, especially their older copper models.


Oh they are sexy amps i would have a child and sell it just to own one of them.

#28 OMR10

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 08:02 PM

shinny i agree with you on the dls amps.

i have seen one in real life too by the way.

#29 ~thematt~

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 08:59 PM

I've come across heaps of Exotic Amps over the last few years. Most are quite disappointing IMO.

I have a few Arc Audio Special Editions with a nice hand signature on them from Robert Zeff. Nice little personalisation. Good Amps. Wouldnt buy them again though. Would definitely get something heaps cheaper.

#30 Luke352

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 09:17 PM

DLS Ultimate TA2 2-channel amp also looks interesting, and fits into the 'exotic' category. Are there any in Australia? RRP close to $3K. Tube preamp (solid state/transistor output stage). Highly favoured SQ amp in Europe.

http://dls.se/en/car...?produkt=en_209
http://www.mobileele...tube-amplifier/


Would be nice to have an array of Ultimate amps in a car. Posted Image

Posted Image



The black Peugeot at Finals had one or two of them fitted.