10 replies to this topic

[Winno]

Hi everyone.
I'm in the planning stages of the next audio system for the family car.
The car will be a 'wagon' for various reasons but this can lend quite well to audio.

Anyway, I've moved away from the twin 10" concept and am now going down the road of a single quality 12" sub instead.

The subs shortlisted were the Morel Ultimo, Ultimo SC and the Alpine Type X.

In the end, the Alpine has won out primarily based on $. Performance wise, after selling a range of subs over the years whilst in the trade myself and more recently, listening to system after system, quite frankly, the Alpine Type X sub is very hard to beat for the money.

The wagon I'm contemplating has an open storage void in the rear passenger side wall right back near the back hatch door. It'll accommodate a 10" sub in a sealed box, but as said, I want to go for a 12" now.

So, I'm looking at an aperiodic enclosure with venting through the bottom of the enclosure and through the floor behind the wheel arch.

Now, the Type X has a Qts of 0.59 (unlike a Qts of around 0.35 for the Morels) which one source would say does not really lend well to AP enclosures. AP's work best with a Qts of less that 0.45 apparently. Done right though, opinion indicates that nothing comes close for lots of SQ's which is what I'm after.

I'd be keen to hear some more comments in regard to this though from guys here closer to home.
The sub will be run off my PG Titanium 600.2 (600rms into 2 and 4 Ohms), be low passed from 50Hz, and run in conjunction with a pair of Elate 9 woofers, CDM88 mids, and ribbon tweeters up front. Source is my Clarion HX-D2.

So, fire away people.
Cheers everyone.

Edited by Winno, 17 March 2011 - 11:04 PM.

[Winno]

Nobody?

Should I just stick to a sealed 28 litres (1 cu ft) if I can find the room?

[Banned.ScrewYouTeam.inc]

can you please take a pic of the location you wish to mount the sub?

I'm curious, even if I can't offer any ideas

[Winno]

At this stage the car is likely to be the latest shape Honda Odyssey (RB3).
I was thinking of mounting the Type X in the boot like this Focal sub (as shown in the same model Honda I'm looking at getting);

 2938sd0.jpg   57.13K   0 downloads

I'm now thinking of fitting the 12 right up in the large gap between the driver's and front passenger's seats under the centre console and facing forward or up like this (very similar to the Honda again but showing some random looking centre tray instead);

 16072008179.jpg   62.37K   0 downloads

This is an eight inch sub, but I'm sure I can make the twelve fit. If not, then I still have one Infinity Perfect 10VQ that will go into a 0.5cu ft sealed box.

If I go the Infinity, I might even have the room to go ported...
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a front of cabin subwoofer set up.

Would welcome anyone's ideas here.

Edited by Winno, 17 March 2011 - 11:06 PM.

[Winno]

Thinking of this set up perhaps;

 RB3 audio.jpg   148.28K   0 downloads

This is the actual cabin of the 2011 Honda Odyssey (RB3).

Edited by Winno, 17 March 2011 - 11:07 PM.

[Tiger]

^^^^ Do the Infinity in that pic and yeah... THAT would be AAAAAAAALL GRAVY, BABY!


My 2 cents worth

[Pulse-R]

With the 9's up front, you can put the sub anywhere really - under the consle with theenclosure either side of the "hump" will fit OK.

[Winno]

Cheers guys.
I was going to have the Elates in sealed boxes with the drivers facing forward/up and only just poking out from under the seats so that I lost almost no leg room. I also dont want to have to step over or around the enclosures when getting into and out of the car.
The main box for each woofer will run back under each seat.

The sub enclosure can be made to sit under the centre tray quite nicely. There's lots of room here.

Another couple of questions;

Is it better to have the port firing the same direction as the sub cone? My thinking would indicate yes, as this would reduce phase issues relative to the cone somewhat (but I am open to correction).
Or would it be better to fire the port backwards towards the 2nd row seats to minimise port chuff?

Which is quieter - a flared slot port, or a flared and dimpled round port?

[Pulse-R]

more area is quieter, flared if you can't get the length for the full width.

as to the direction of the port...

it's a delicate balancing act between phase and group delay.
front-firing (with the cone) will give lower group delay, but faster roll-off of phase and loudness due to de-coupling below Fb.

putting the port away from the cone (a-la rear firing) will give smoother roll-off below Fb, but also longer group delay and laggy phase linearity.

[Winno]

Thanks Pulse-R.
I think I had my understanding around the wrong way before.


So by your comments, I take the following:

Port at the front = some cancellation of cone wave due to port phase cancelling driver phase?
Rear mounted port = less cancellation but, the laggy/delayed sound you have described?

I've heard group delay and I don't know if I can live with it.
What can be done to prevent or minimise the cancellation and resultant roll off of the front mounted port?

I'll be wanting to tune the port (fb) quite low to get some really nice extension.

Edited by Winno, 20 March 2011 - 10:29 PM.

[Winno]

Another question for someone;
Does the gain plot in WinISD factor in the phase plot and the group delay?
i.e. Is the gain plot the final result after taking into account the phase and group delay plots?
Cheers

Edited by Winno, 21 March 2011 - 09:48 PM.