39 replies to this topic

[muzzy66]

Ok, Ive been saying this for a long tine, but now the MX5s days are truly numbered.

Ive kept it on the low, but ive been researching for a replacement for a couple of weeks now. The only difference is that this time ive decided I dont want to put myself further in debt (or at the peril of finance companies) so im avoiding the finance path and buying in cash.

The mx5 is now 22 years old and time is slowly taking its toll, so im going to sell it, put a few grand cash on top and get something newer. Im limited to an absolte max $10,000 buget at a stretch (prob more like $8k-$9k) so choice is limited.

Right now ive narrowed it down to:

*2001-2002 Alfa Romeo 147 Twin Spark
*1999-2002 Alfa Romeo 156 Twin Spark
*1995-1997 Mitsubishi FTO GPX
*1999-2001 Subaru Liberty RX
*2001-2003 VW Bora 2.0 / V5

Must be manual, must have a back seat (for emergencies only) must have a usable boot. Got about a grand saved atm, so once i can get thay to about 3k on top of my car the hunt is on.

In the meantime, ill still try to make it to MEASQ round 3 as a competitor if I still have the car by then.

Edited by muzzy66, 31 May 2011 - 01:16 PM.

[Fury♫]

I'd say the Bora but i'm biased
It has the biggest boot of the lot though.

[Gozza]

Shame to hear you are selling the mx5 you are welcome to have a drive of my Liberty next time we meet to see if you like them (it's a 2001 3Gen manual).

It's been a pretty straighforward car so far to install stuff into, but the doors are pretty shallow and since they are pillarless, I'm expecting some rattles!

They are a really good car though, reliable, good looking and fun to drive definitely a car I would recommend!

[muzzy66]

My main concerns with the Bora are reliability and performance. My research suggests that VW reliability is a bit of a problem, though the Bora does seems to rate reasonably well as an individual model. Also the 85kw/170nm from the base 2L engine sounds like it'd be slow as hell. The base Bora isn't that heavy for what it is (around 1250kg) but my MX5 weighs 300kg less and makes the same power...and it's hardly a rocketship. The V5 would be better, but harder to find within the budget.

The Subaru looks like the all-rounder of the group. Only downsides are security (rated a very poor 20/120 in NRMA tests), and the doors are reportedly shallow and pretty limiting. Also according to my research the running costs are surprisingly not far off the Alfas - you can kinda expect high running costs for a flash euro car, but it's harder to stomach for a pretty conservative family sedan. On the upside safety, reliablity, build quality, practicality and all aspects of performance are strong.

Alfas naturally have highest running costs of the group, so that's the biggest downside. Reliability is on the back of my mind, but my research suggests me there isn't as much to fear as the reputation suggess. Records show they are no less reliable then an Astra, a BA Falcon or an Audi A3. The doors can take large drivers with ease, fantastic seats and seating position, great presentation inside and out, good engines, great mileage and ton of character.

FTO is obviously the lightest, quickest, best handling of the group by far. It's the closest to providing the feel of an MX5, only it's newer and much more practical. Theseats and driving position are perfect, doors thay will fit nearly anything, decent boot and records show that the manual models have bulletproof reliability. It's also a car that wouldnt make me feel like im turning middle-aged. Downers? Availability of parts could be an issue, practicality is still limited compared to the others, and imports always have a greater tendancy to attract the wrong attention.

Decisions, decisions!

Head says Liberty, heart says 156 or FTO.

Edited by muzzy66, 31 May 2011 - 07:08 PM.

[Fury♫]

Subaru's have the shallowest doors. You will struggle to fit deep drivers in them!!

I have Revelator 7's in my doors, behind factory door trims, and windows go down without a problem.
Not to mention u can fit 5" drivers in the kicks of a Bora without any issues at all.

[muzzy66]

Hmm...that makes things interesting.

Bora looked like it'd be the next car off the list, but but the ability to take a larger drivers under factory trims keeps things interesting. If I go three way then diameter is less an issue, because I can use the Seas L16's (5.5") to great effect...but if I go two way it'll have to be a 6.5" or 7".

Either way I'm going to be needing about 70mm-80mm depth to work with, and I get the feeling that would be more then just a wee problem in the Liberty.

FTO is definately no problem. One of my friends had one before, fit the previous gen HSK165's (about 75mm depth) in his doors with about another 10mm-20mm spare. I think we actually tried my 96mm deep Rainbow Power's (96mm depth) at the time and fit them at a squeeze. Might even fit an 8" under the factory trims with a little work.

I know the Alfa's will fit 67mm depth no problems (courtesy of Shiny's Esotar's!) but beyond this I can't confirm.

[Gozza]

I'm going to be attempting to fit the Crescendo MB-6's in the Liberty - 75mm mounting depth. Will let you know how it goes!

And by the way, yes the Liberty has a rather shallow door, but if you look at the door trim, the bulge permits a fairly thick spacer. How thick, I am yet to find out

[TEGBOY]

Crescendo will fit the Liberty. FCA has done them, I know my Subaru's owning a few of them

And

Edited by TEGBOY, 31 May 2011 - 08:33 PM.

[Gozza]

Isn't the Liberty FCA did a 4gen though? Pete is considering the 3Gen as the 4Gen would cost >10k and therefore be out of the budget

But if you've owned a 3Gen and say that fit, I am a very happy man

And on the topic of running costs for the Liberty, mine has done 223,xxx kms and it's never missed a beat. Had to replace brake pads (front and rear) and it only cost me $80 each end! Another thing to watch out for is the coil packs. Normally you wouldn't have to replace a coil pack on a car, but in the boxer engines, the coil pack is above the engine and after 200,000kms roughly you need to replace is at the heat can affect it. It's about $400-500 for a new coil pack I'm pretty sure.

Other than that, it's all pretty much the same as any other car! (timing belt, wear and tear on tyres, suspension gets softer with age etc)

[muzzy66]

Gozza, on 31 May 2011 - 08:02 PM, said:

I'm going to be attempting to fit the Crescendo MB-6's in the Liberty - 75mm mounting depth. Will let you know how it goes!

Please do

I'd be looking at anywhere from 69mm depth (SB15) to 78mm (7" Revelator).

Regardless of two or three way, I wouldn't see myself going any shallower or deeper then that.

Edited by muzzy66, 31 May 2011 - 08:56 PM.

[shizzle]

I always buy the car that I like the best, then go about setting the audio into it. Thats the challenge, and the fun to me.

Seems a bit bizzare choosing a car based on your drivers, that will most likely change in the near future anyway

[muzzy66]

Thanks for the info Tegboy, not sure if that's a Gen 3 or Gen 4, but a good sign either way.

Gozza, on 31 May 2011 - 08:40 PM, said:

And on the topic of running costs for the Liberty, mine has done 223,xxx kms and it's never missed a beat. Had to replace brake pads (front and rear) and it only cost me $80 each end! Another thing to watch out for is the coil packs. Normally you wouldn't have to replace a coil pack on a car, but in the boxer engines, the coil pack is above the engine and after 200,000kms roughly you need to replace is at the heat can affect it. It's about $400-500 for a new coil pack I'm pretty sure.

Other than that, it's all pretty much the same as any other car! (timing belt, wear and tear on tyres, suspension gets softer with age etc)

I just did some servicing checks at carsurvice.com.au. Basically just averaged out all the different services and found that the average service cost came out to:

Alfa 147 - $781.22
Alfa 156 - $780.55
Liberty RX - $693.38
VW Bora 2.0 - $377.00

Calculated estimated fuel consumption per year based on my driving habits and added the fuel, estimated servicing costs, insurance together to get an 'estimated' totaly yearly running costs of:

Alfa 147 - $4,050 ($338/month)
Alfa 156 - $4,035 ($336/month)
Liberty RX - $3,715 ($310/month)
VW Bora 2.0 - $3,020 ($252/month)

Not foolproof I know, but it's a gives a rough indication. Based on this the difference in running costs between an Alfa or a Liberty is ultimately pretty insignificant, with the Bora being the only one with any real significant cost savings.

Checked out costs of spare parts and again the Alfa's are nowhere near as expensive as I would have expected, being european and all.

The FTO was not listed on the servicing site, so I wasn't able to get a guess-timate on it.

Edited by muzzy66, 31 May 2011 - 09:34 PM.

[TEGBOY]

Well, I am selling my STi tuned Forester at present, and guess what I am buying? A Bora 4-motion, I love them. Fury's drives like a dream, and its a practical car.

I don't look at servicing costs, but I do look at reliablilty, yes, an Alfa GT is still in my long term sights, especially now they are available in white. Shiny and I can have Ying and Yang cars.

[muzzy66]

shizzle, on 31 May 2011 - 09:14 PM, said:

I always buy the car that I like the best, then go about setting the audio into it. Thats the challenge, and the fun to me.

Seems a bit bizzare choosing a car based on your drivers, that will most likely change in the near future anyway

Indeed the car itself is the main decision maker for me, but if its a close call (as it is right now) then audio could prove the tiebreaker.

The MX5 has been one massive challenge for audio, and the challenge can be fun...but to be honest ive done enough experimenting to last me a lifetime. I've pushed my brain to the limits of design and calculations and subjected my ears to enough different drivers to last me a lifetime. For once, I'd love to just be able to built a great sounding system I can enjoy, sans barriers.

Oh and the system will be designed around the car (rather then the car chosen around the system). That said, I've got a pretty limited selection of 'muzzy approved' drivers I'd consider using. Some I already have on the shelf and some I'd need to buy, but all of them fall within that range of dimensions. All between 5.5" and 7", and all between 68mm and 78mm.

Edited by muzzy66, 31 May 2011 - 10:32 PM.

[muzzy66]

The FTO appeals to the soul, the 156 to the heart and the Liberty to the head. We'll see which part wins!

I've pretty much seen the cars from every possible direction OTHER then actually driving them, so a round of test drives could very quickly cut the list from five cars to two.

Either way it's going to take me a couple of months at least to save the extra cash before I put the car up for sale, so I have time to contemplate...I'll try to avoid raving too much more about this until after that time.

Edited by muzzy66, 31 May 2011 - 11:50 PM.