13 replies to this topic

[Tommei]

Hi everyone,

I will be selecting, inventing and building a project for Systems Engineering for year 12 VCE next year. During the summer break I have to have decided what I would like to build and commence a design folio.

Whatever project I choose has to incorporate electronic aswell as mechanical aspects, eg. amp rack which spins or amps that comes out on hydraulic pistons, etc...

So I am looking for suggestions for projects which can be designed and built outside of a car (I have to build the project at school due to VCE rules, I can fibreglass in the car though, just need many pictures and videos as proof that I did it), however I can install the final product into a car and make a video to demonstrate its purpose. Originally I wanted to build 5 Jaycar engine monitoring modules (turbo timer, volts, narrow band air/fuel, etc), mount them inside a plexiglass box and fibreglass it into the glove box with a motor and slides which can pop in and out via a remote.
However Im having second thoughts as I think the hardest part is to design the motorised rack system, which will be very challenging as I am not experienced in custom installs. unless anyone here can give me some tips and help. Im an amature at fibreglassing too. I have made speaker pods before but nothing on car dashboards or anything crazy.

Cheers, Tommy

Edited by Tommei, 22 December 2011 - 04:07 PM.

[jazig.k]

make the gauges, mount them in the glove box, and then with motors and electronic popper locks, make the glove box open and close at the flick of a switch?

check out 'XPNCIV', vr commodore with auto open and close boot lid [same idea as iv suggested]. he loved to show it off alot... so im sure you'll find a vid or something around. he featured in Street Commodores too, so i reckon he'll be on the forums? i know others have done it before, but he's got the only numberplate i rememeber and that i reckon would have a vid.
another friend did it with window wiper motors or winder motors and cables? anyway, he never got it quite right, half the time it wouldnt click shut properly [i think he couldnt get the cable tension correct?]. what ever Cleary used worked great.

EDIT: my tips would be stay away from hydraulics, you can get electronic actuators anyway which would be the go i reckon.

http://www.firgellia...&products_id=31
maybe these would work, the site is australian, and they have a decent variety. find a stroke that matches, or get one with more than enough [while being small enough in size] and use micro switches they offer to limit its extension and retraction.
you woundt need to worry about the lock so much as the actuator should hold the glove box closed.

Edited by jazig.k, 27 November 2011 - 02:31 PM.

[aj2thec]

Hey dude,

I've done a few 'design and build' projects for uni and my one tip for you is to keep it simple. Sure, we all want to build something kick ass, but I've found it's just not worth the stress in the end. I've don't know the assessment criteria for your assignment, but I'm guessing the finial product is probably worth <20%?? Build something you know is achievable and focus your efforts on the design and analysis.

Jaycar is your friend


So with that in mind, maybe you should try to replicate something along these lines:

Edited by aj2thec, 27 November 2011 - 07:14 PM.

[Tommei]

jazig.k, on 27 November 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

make the gauges, mount them in the glove box, and then with motors and electronic popper locks, make the glove box open and close at the flick of a switch?

check out 'XPNCIV', vr commodore with auto open and close boot lid [same idea as iv suggested]. he loved to show it off alot... so im sure you'll find a vid or something around. he featured in Street Commodores too, so i reckon he'll be on the forums? i know others have done it before, but he's got the only numberplate i rememeber and that i reckon would have a vid.
another friend did it with window wiper motors or winder motors and cables? anyway, he never got it quite right, half the time it wouldnt click shut properly [i think he couldnt get the cable tension correct?]. what ever Cleary used worked great.

EDIT: my tips would be stay away from hydraulics, you can get electronic actuators anyway which would be the go i reckon.

http://www.firgellia...&products_id=31
maybe these would work, the site is australian, and they have a decent variety. find a stroke that matches, or get one with more than enough [while being small enough in size] and use micro switches they offer to limit its extension and retraction.
you woundt need to worry about the lock so much as the actuator should hold the glove box closed.

Thats a very good idea. Never thought of that. I would say its a spin off from my original idea and would have more support informational wise on the net. I will look into this. Cheers

aj2thec, on 27 November 2011 - 06:28 PM, said:

Hey dude,

I've done a few 'design and build' projects for uni and my one tip for you is to keep it simple. Sure, we all want to build something kick ass, but I've found it's just not worth the stress in the end. I've don't know the assessment criteria for your assignment, but I'm guessing the finial product is probably worth <20%?? Build something you know is achievable and focus your efforts on the design and analysis.

Jaycar is your friend


So with that in mind, maybe you should try to replicate something along these lines:

You want me to build a bugatti? lol Yes Ive been contemplating that too. I hope Im not being too optimistic. I dont want to end up with an over complicated project. The project actually counts 50% of the subject, so if I can really impress the teacher and the assessment authority, then I will be onto a winner!

[bob]

A mini CNC routing machine would be a good project. Have a look at www.cnczone.com to get an idea on it.

[ubernoob]

I would love to see a crank driven sub for SPL, it obviously wouldn't do music but it could do test tones and would always run to full excursion.
I have no idea if it would work but surely you could make a cylinder and piston type arrangement attach to the basket of a sub if you rip the magnet off.

[Tommei]

Ive been thinking about what I should do. Was thinking that maybe a CD drive could come in use. I could somehow modify a CD drive to push the box of modules in and out of the glovebox? I keep thinking the automated lid for the glovebox wont be such a good idea as the passenger side would have less leg room due to a lid constantly in the way. Perhaps theres a way to retract the lid downwards inline with the dash, thus eliminating the chance to sacrifice leg room, something like this but obviously not with a number plate but with the glovebox lid instead:

Quote

A mini CNC routing machine would be a good project. Have a look at www.cnczone.com to get an idea on it.

Designing a CNC machine? If Im correct, then I would say that that is way out of my ability lol

Quote

I would love to see a crank driven sub for SPL, it obviously wouldn't do music but it could do test tones and would always run to full excursion.
I have no idea if it would work but surely you could make a cylinder and piston type arrangement attach to the basket of a sub if you rip the magnet off.

Sorry I didnt really understand what youre saying. Is it some sort of signal generator driven off the car's engine?

[bob]

Out of your abilities? No way. Anyone that knows how to use their hands could make one IMO.
Check out this thread http://whitenilus.bl.../p/diy-cnc.html

This is one that I built(building)
http://www.mobileele...nc/page__st__30

[ubernoob]

Tommei, on 29 November 2011 - 07:22 PM, said:

Sorry I didnt really understand what youre saying. Is it some sort of signal generator driven off the car's engine?

I never get ideas to text very well, think of an engine with the head removed, the crank spins and the piston moves up and down, if you set up a similar small scale version you could take the magnet off the sub and work out a way to attach the voice coil assembly or the spider to the "piston ."

You would need to attach a motor to the crank to drive the thing and really you would need to be able to control it's speed, or you could use a stepper motor.
Still not a very clear explanation.

[Tommei]

bob, on 30 November 2011 - 05:58 AM, said:

Out of your abilities? No way. Anyone that knows how to use their hands could make one IMO.
Check out this thread http://whitenilus.bl.../p/diy-cnc.html

This is one that I built(building)
http://www.mobileele...nc/page__st__30

How many hours goes into making it?

ubernoob, on 30 November 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

I never get ideas to text very well, think of an engine with the head removed, the crank spins and the piston moves up and down, if you set up a similar small scale version you could take the magnet off the sub and work out a way to attach the voice coil assembly or the spider to the "piston ."

You would need to attach a motor to the crank to drive the thing and really you would need to be able to control it's speed, or you could use a stepper motor.
Still not a very clear explanation.

I think I see what youre saying, but what is the purpose of it?

[iffer]

ubernoob, on 30 November 2011 - 09:22 AM, said:

I never get ideas to text very well, think of an engine with the head removed, the crank spins and the piston moves up and down, if you set up a similar small scale version you could take the magnet off the sub and work out a way to attach the voice coil assembly or the spider to the "piston ."

You would need to attach a motor to the crank to drive the thing and really you would need to be able to control it's speed, or you could use a stepper motor.
Still not a very clear explanation.

If I understand your idea - you are thinking to use the pistons driving a sub "cone" to generate high volume thumps - not any sort of musical signal - but just move the cone(s) (can't do music with that sort of system since the key with replicating music is sprung mass of the cone vs motor power (want a low mass driver - and a whopping great piston/cam isn't going to help )
But if all you wanted was loud thumps - put your spl meter at the back end of a harley and gun it - same effect (loud, but musical mostly to the ears of the owner). Might be able to customise an exhaust for a V8 (or other motor with individually large cylinders) to focus the sound (rather than muffle).

There have been high-end bass systems that worked by diverting (portions) of a large fast moving air flow -basically they set up a wind tunnel then divert some of the air flow out the speaker exhaust. Changing the amount diverted and the direction of the intake they could get huge +/- pressure waves. With fast enough control on the diversion vent (apparently) it was music quality in subwoofer terms. The trick there is they didn't try to start/stop/reverse the bulk air flow - instead they just got the air up and moving and tapped off what they needed for the music burst.

edit the next day...
I wonder if you could do this on a car - mount a large scoop intake on the front of the car and channel it down to get high pressure. then use a take-off baffle sort of system to vent the pressurised air into the cabin in bursts (say up to 30hz )
Want it louder? drive faster! lol (ok, you could use a variable throat size and bypass valving to get a constant velocity air stream for speeds above some minimum -determined by scoop size)

Edited by iffer, 11 December 2011 - 09:20 PM.

[Tommei]

Ok well Its the summer break and its time to get serious! I will begin my design folio these few days...

So in Summary, I have concluded that I will mount the Jaycar modules (around 3 or 4 of them) in a plexiglass box which will sit inside an MDF box along with a computer CD drive which the CD tray will be custom attached to the underside of the box. This removes the hassle of huge expenditure for linear actuators or wasting time in designing and testing a slide and rack system which will be making the project unnecessarily difficult. The CD tray will move out a total of approximately 5.5", this is sufficient length for the module box to be fully exposed to viewers. A hollow rectangular hole will be cut on one side of the box, thus allowing the module box to move in and out. A small hole will be drilled for the button on the CD drive.

I would like to fibreglass a box for the modules which contours the dash top, but Im not sure how to go about the proper procedure to create the mould. I can fibreglass, but have minimal experience in creating moulds except speaker pod moulds lol. However fibreglassing a box then finishing it in a nice leather trim would yield many bonus marks for my assessment compared to a plain MDF box!
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Heres something that I made previously, its a home audio system using car audio equipment running off a power converter from 12v to 240v. Pretty much a box just like the headunit box in this pic. An empty hole, the CD tray on the base and the module box moving in and out. Thinking to mount the box onto the dash of the car or somewhere under the dash. or even next to the centre console.
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Now I am not an expert in computer equipment so I would like to receive some help to wire the drive into the car. Do I Just run the 12v connection to the accessory in the car? Or should I run it constant 12v? Even if I ran it constant, it shouldnt drain the battery right? Its not using any power if I dont open or close it?

Theres two ground terminals? Do I bridge them and ground it to the chassis of the car? Do it leave the 5v alone?
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I will not need any of the CD laser readers, or any of that extra stuff in the CD drive. Is it possible to remove these components without preventing the CD tray motor from working? the circuit board on the left of the pic are where the cd tray motors are and the circuit board at the back are for all the lasers readers, etc. Both boards are connected via an electrical strap thing. Wouldnt I be able to get rid of all the laser readers etc aswell as their circuit boards then run power straight to the motor?
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I will have to modify the CD tray or produce a completely new tray to bolt onto my module box, but you can see it uses a rack and pinion system.
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Its a bit of a long reply but I just need some guidance for this, dont want to end up blowing anything up lol. I dont have much role models who can help me with this project, so any help will be greatly appreciated!

Edited by Tommei, 22 December 2011 - 04:11 PM.

[iffer]

Maybe something here to give you some incentive - or ideas!
http://www.youtube.c...d&v=IJSfaSmmeFM

[LukeP]

You can definately modify the CD tray to work without all the other electrical components, eg just by running power directly to the motor. Keep in mind you'll also need to come up with a circuit that can reverse the polarity of the wires providing power to the motor to recreate the 'back' and 'forward' motion. Also don't forget about your limit switches!

Good luck - looking forward to seeing some video of this in action soon.