39 replies to this topic

[iluvmusik]

Pete continues to surprise me with his knowledge despite his youth. When I first started in car audio in Nov 2011, there was a private 6 pages discourse between us that was a minefield of information. There were also some very nice pics of exotic gears like the Rainbow Power, Rainbow Reference and Celestra amps. Then there were the DIY speakers and I had to stop him there as I didn't want to get into that. Now I started to see why everyone's raving about Scanspeaks. We were discussing what would be good for my sound system. Eventually I audition some of the speakers for myself, Dynaudio Esotec 242, Focal 165krx2, Hertz Mille mlk 2 tw and Crescendo Opus 8.6. They sounded different but are all good IMO and I bet I could live with any of them. Talk about being easy to please lol.

Pete provided me with 3 links which I haven't had the time to look at but I think I will now as part of my on going infatuations with car audio.

http://www.diymobile...e-first%2A.html

http://www.diymobile...s-driver-specs/

http://www.zaphaudio.com/

[muzzy66]

Thanks for the kind words!

Really though audio is just such a complex area. There's so much I've learned up till now from research and experimentation, and yet so much I still need to learn!

It's easy for me though because its something I'm so passionate about.

Plus I just love helping people and knowing I've helped a person learn something that they can then use to gain greater appreciation either for their own system or for audio in general.

[Pulse-R]

Some minor things to note:
1. cabin gain occurs at different frequencies in different cars
2. with door mounted speakers, there is often a large peak at 250-300Hz due to the centre console/foot well cavity resonance/reflection, and a corresponding dip at ~420Hz.
3. operating a speaker so low frequency in a door often has it's own drawbacks/resonance/vibration issues.

careful consideration must be given to what you expect, and what is realistic.
I would recommend against having door mounted speakers driven below 70Hz, or above 300Hz for the reasons given.

[muzzy66]

Pulse-R, on 19 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Some minor things to note:
1. cabin gain occurs at different frequencies in different cars
2. with door mounted speakers, there is often a large peak at 250-300Hz due to the centre console/foot well cavity resonance/reflection, and a corresponding dip at ~420Hz.
3. operating a speaker so low frequency in a door often has it's own drawbacks/resonance/vibration issues.

careful consideration must be given to what you expect, and what is realistic.
I would recommend against having door mounted speakers driven below 70Hz, or above 300Hz for the reasons given.

All of the drivers mentioned are 6.5" or smaller, and as such I'd generally avoid using them regardless, simply for distortion/power handling reasons. I've never noticed the 400hz dip in past systems though ) if running two-way people will often not have much choice but to live with it.

I'm sure cabin gain would vary to a significant degree going fron an MX-5 to a Commodore, but going from a Pulsar to say, a Liberty I don't think the difference would be that dramatic. I've yet to see conclusive results to confirm this though!

Gotta love in-car acoustics

[Nitro_GS_R]

muzzy66 -- what software are you using to model the speaker response? I'm evaluating different speakers for my car and would like to play with some different drivers and effects of enclosures. I have used some response simulators in the past, but the screen captures of what you are using look much more detailed and flexible.

Thanks in advance!!

[fenis]

muzzy66, on 18 February 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

So, many things to consider when choosing a midbass for your car doors. What we know by now is that really want a driver that has a high Q ( 0.7 - 0.8 ), a low FS (< 60hz), good motor, and you probably want some decent excursion to (> 5mm) for power handling purposes. Sadly I've yet to find such a driver that meets all of these criteria, so you will usually be making a compromise somewhere. My first step is to look at fs/qts, and then when I've narrowed do the field that way i ask myself what's more important to me - upper midbass 'kick', or a low midbass extension? If it's the former then go for the drivers with the highest Q values. If it's the latter, then go for the ones with the lowest fs.

Muzzy I was looking at the thiele small parameters of all the rainbow drivers and think I've found the perfect midbass - the 175 power:

fs = 37hz
qts = 0.60
fs/qts = 62

Do you mind modelling this woofer as well? I'm interested to see what the curve looks like. Also I think years back you tried these in your doors - how did they sound? Punchy as hell I'd assume from looking at the specs.

[Rory_newton]

A quote from muzzy in one of my threads "The Rainbow Power series on the other hand is day and night - those things are absolute beasts and are one of the most incredible midbass drivers I've ever used. They make all but a handful of mids seem like they are one size smaller then they really are. VERY impressive woofers, but they are also 96mm deep and 7" in diamneter (which makes them a nightmare to install), and last I checked they were about $1,400"

[muzzy66]

fenis, on 27 March 2012 - 12:41 AM, said:

Muzzy I was looking at the thiele small parameters of all the rainbow drivers and think I've found the perfect midbass - the 175 power:

fs = 37hz
qts = 0.60
fs/qts = 62

Do you mind modelling this woofer as well? I'm interested to see what the curve looks like. Also I think years back you tried these in your doors - how did they sound? Punchy as hell I'd assume from looking at the specs.

Very well, that's how they model! Nice and smooth from memory with very nice low end extension. They performed like true beasts in my Laser, and they were hardly perfectly installed either. They are also very smooth and clean right out to about 1khz, maybe a bit higher.

I'll model for you when I get home if I remember

Rory_newton, on 27 March 2012 - 12:59 AM, said:

A quote from muzzy in one of my threads "The Rainbow Power series on the other hand is day and night - those things are absolute beasts and are one of the most incredible midbass drivers I've ever used. They make all but a handful of mids seem like they are one size smaller then they really are. VERY impressive woofers, but they are also 96mm deep and 7" in diamneter (which makes them a nightmare to install), and last I checked they were about $1,400"

This is true - its been a while since I've used them, but they really are massive drivers. The tweeters from the set are quite nice too - one of the few car audio tweeters I actually like, and IMO the best if the Rainbow range.(bar maybe the Platinum and reference).

[muzzy66]

There you go!

Attached Files

•  RainbowPower.JPG   104.31K   6 downloads

2004 Alfa 147 Twin Spark (Phase 1)
Source: Clarion HX-D2
Tweeter: Scan-Speak D3004/6020-00
Midbass: Scan-Speak 18W/8535-00
Speaker Amp: Tru-Technology Billet B-475
Subwoofer: Peerless 830877 XXLS 12"
Subwoofer Amp: Celestra VA210

1998 Ford EL Fairmont
Source: Eclipse CD8455
Tweeter: Scan-Speak D3004/6020-00
Midbass: Peerless 831882 HDS Exclusive
Subwoofer: Peerless 830846 XXLS 10"
Amp: Helix HXA-500

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[Pulse-R]

Wow! ruler flat to 20 kHz!
*chuckles*