25 replies to this topic

[Lutetium]

Hey all,

I'm looking to upgrade the sound quality on my VE Calais Sportswagon. I don't need any more volume just better SQ, sound stage and tighter bass. My initial budget was around 500, but I have gone to two specialist dealers in NW Melbourne and have received the following quotes.

Quote 1
Focal 165v30 splits for the front and Focal 165ca1 for the rear doors. Installed for $800

Quote 2
Maestro CS6508 splits for the front and Maestro CC6508 for the rear doors. Installed for $800.

Both sounded good in the store although the Focal appeared to have a better enclosure and the bass was more forceful. Both system where in different stores so it was hard to compare the two.

My questions;
Are these good value upgrades, considering I will be using the standard HU?

Would it be better value to spend less on say Pioneer speakers?

Is it worthwhile spending an extra $200 on sound proofing the doors?

Can I stick to $500 and get a fairly decent upgrade in SQ?

Has anyone done a similar upgrade?

Thanks all for you response.

[~Spyne~]

On a tight budget?
Morel 'Maximo' or 'Tempo' component speakers upfront, with the matching coaxials in the rear.
The Maximo set (front and rear) would be around the $350-$400 mark all up. The Tempo set would be closer to $500-$550. Plus installation.
Crescendo have the 'Opus1' ($249) and 'Opus3' ($399) component speakers that sound very good.
Hertz 'Energy' speakers should be around $450-$500 for components and coaxials.

Tighter bass will come from proper speaker installation first. Then sealing the doors. Then an amplifier. Then added 'sound deadening' products, such as Stinger Roadkill or Dynamat Extreme. Adding a subwoofer will also obviously give a great improvement in bass.
Sealing the doors (service holes) will have a much more noticeable effect than just sound deadening the door panels. Make sure the speakers, when installed, are installed on some solid mdf baffles/rings, that are themselves securely mounted to the metal inner skin of the door.

Only you can decide whether the difference in sound you hear between the focal/maestro and something cheaper like pioneer/kenwood is worth the difference in price.

[Lutetium]

Thanks for the reply. It is not so much that I’m on a tight budget, it is more that I can’t justify the additional expense. I’m no 20 year old who needs the best stereo around, I’m a Dad who wants to make an improvement to the family hauler.

I like what I have read about the Morels but it seems there are no installers on my side of the city.

[~Spyne~]

Where abouts are you located? Sometimes it can be worth travelling to get the job done properly - I live in Ballarat and travel to Langwarrin (Frankston) to get most of my installation work done by Mark at Frankston Car Audio.
Sam and Brett are also excellent, but again, are out at Braeside.

[Lutetium]

I live in Taylors Lakes. I was just talking to the Vic rep for Morel and he recommended Riverside Custom or Phat Audio. So I guess I'll check them both out.

[~Spyne~]

Yep, Mick at Riverside would probably be your best bet for being close and knowing what he's doing.

[hsvmonarogen3]

Let me know how you go. I just ordered a Calais V. No doubt an upgrade will be on the cards

[Lutetium]

I believe the Calais V comes with the 11 speaker Bose system, so you my be happy with it stock.

[shiny_car]

Quote 1
Focal 165v30 splits for the front and Focal 165ca1 for the rear doors. Installed for $800

Quote 2
Maestro CS6508 splits for the front and Maestro CC6508 for the rear doors. Installed for $800.

Normally it's only worth upgrading the front speakers. Rears are primarily for rear passengers; so it depends how often the car has rear passengers, and what the priority is for them. If the vast majority of driving involves only the driver/front passenger, I think it's hard to justify upgrading the rears.

If you do only upgrade the fronts, it offers the option to go with higher quality (though, no point over capitalising; high quality speakers warrant an amplifier to run them optimally, whereas sticking with entry level speakers is fine when they are run off the headunit), or caters for any sound deadening that you're considering. Or it'll just save money overall.

[Big_Valven]

I would recommend the focal out of those two. Hard to go wrong with them for a simple upgrade. However if you can stretch for sound deadening on the front doors it'll also give you a lot more midbass punch.

[Lutetium]

Normally it's only worth upgrading the front speakers. Rears are primarily for rear passengers; so it depends how often the car has rear passengers, and what the priority is for them. If the vast majority of driving involves only the driver/front passenger, I think it's hard to justify upgrading the rears.

If you do only upgrade the fronts, it offers the option to go with higher quality (though, no point over capitalising; high quality speakers warrant an amplifier to run them optimally, whereas sticking with entry level speakers is fine when they are run off the headunit), or caters for any sound deadening that you're considering. Or it'll just save money overall.

I had thought of only doing the fronts, as either the back seat is empty or my kids are there. However as the current speakers are 2 ohms and the new speakers will most likely be 4 ohms, I believe there will be a volume discrepancy between the two with the original back speaker considerably louder. I would have to use the fader to correct this and I also don’t believe that would be ideal.

Edited by Lutetium, 01 February 2012 - 08:24 AM.

[~Spyne~]

There's nothing wrong with using the fade function - it just limits the output to the speakers you are fading out. Exactly the same as turning the volume down.

[Big_Valven]

+1, no shame in using the fader.

If you were to do the two front speakers and use sound deadening, leaving the rears stock, even the rear seat passengers will get more bass from the front.

[Lutetium]

Thanks for the great and timely replies guys. I will head back to VSS in Keilor and organise the Focal splits for the front with sound deadening and plugging any service holes if possible. I’ll let you know what I think of the results.

[Lutetium]

So I had the Focal 165V30 splits installed in the front as well as Dynamat Extreme on the front doors and the centre speaker removed.

The Verdict.
There is a far greater range of sound from mid bass to the highs. The bass on CDs such as Mezzanine from Massive Attack is almost sub like, very deep, low and powerful.
Much more detail and clarity across the range, and instruments on acoustic music are more defined. Sound stage is far greater with the sound field deeper and wider.
There also appears to be more detail at lower volume levels and the car appears to be quieter. Even the Wife is impressed!

Conclusion.
Very happy with the upgrade, has breathed new life in to the standard Head Unit. Makes driving more enjoyable. I would recommend the upgrade to other VE owners.
Could have I found a similar improvement from alternative products had I shopped around a little more? – most likely, but VSS are were close and once I had made the decision to upgrade, I wanted it done straight away.

[shiny_car]

You've obviously made a good choice. Nice one - enjoy.

[hsvmonarogen3]

yeah i just picked my car up last night. definately an upgrade needed. lacks everything. also no sub becasue of wagon. but no spare so one or two will be going in there for sure...

[Lutetium]

I have been contemplating a further upgrade, maybe an amp such as the Alpine F30 and a slimline sub for under the seat. However I’m not sure how much benefit I would get from the amp. The stock HU produces more than enough volume and the SQ is very good, but.... With the wiring kit and installation I suspect I would be looking at another $500+. Would it be value for money?

Also, what are peoples experience with slimline subs, are they value for money?

On a final note, sometimes I am hearing the alternator whine, not always but most of the time. The installer has recommended to move the crossovers to under the seat to fix the whine, is that really the only option? What have other VE owners done?

[occa]

so did SSV seal the service holes and dynamat the doors too? if you dont mind me asking how much did they charge you for that?

i would have thought the Focal speakers, dynamat and installation would have gone over your original budget of $500.

i've been told SSV sort of specialise in doing VE's so one would have expected them to know in advance you were going to come into noise issues.

keep us up to date with how you get on with the noise problems.

[IamtheSteg]

I have a VE...

Good to see the doors are properly treated and the POS centre is removed.

You have a nice pair of splits there and if you amp them up they will thank you for it. It's not just about extra SPL, the factory deck is woefully measly and extra headroom is always a wonderful thing.

I run some Jl C2 splits and they are currently driven off a cheap Sony amp and even that is a huge step in the right direction...

...if you select an amp with high level ins you won't need an LOC, and if you mount it under your drivers seat it's an easy tap in from the HU.

1 other thing, my xovers are mounted under seat (right next to the amp to facilitate the move to 2 way active) and I have zero noise in my system - no doubt that's largely down to the excellent install work of the lads that fitted it but I was still amazed that a cheap amp and high level inputs didn't result in any whine or low level hiss at all.

Edited by DailyDriver, 09 April 2012 - 05:09 PM.

[Big_Valven]

If you want zero noise from your VE, crossovers should be mounted under the dash away from the floor, or under the driver's seat. Your installer should not be charging to move them around though - their job is to get it right in the first place...

[Lutetium]

so did SSV seal the service holes and dynamat the doors too? if you dont mind me asking how much did they charge you for that?

i would have thought the Focal speakers, dynamat and installation would have gone over your original budget of $500.

i've been told SSV sort of specialise in doing VE's so one would have expected them to know in advance you were going to come into noise issues.

keep us up to date with how you get on with the noise problems.

Yes it did, the final cost was over $800 which I thought was a little on the expensive side. The dynamat alone was $250.


The guy that appears to be running the Keilor branch said not all VE's have whine with the standard installation so hence why they put the crossovers behind the dash. If I don’t add any more equipment, I may just put up with the whine as I don’t really want equipment under the seat.

If you want zero noise from your VE, crossovers should be mounted under the dash away from the floor, or under the driver's seat. Your installer should not be charging to move them around though - their job is to get it right in the first place...

They are currently behind the dash, under the tweeter. VSS will relocate them under the seat at no charge.

Edited by Lutetium, 09 April 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[IamtheSteg]

$$$ Wise i think you have done well

you have a $500+ pair of splits, $120 worth of Dynamat plus installation of both. If that makes Install about $200 from a reputable workshop that's pretty good going. Esp as they are prepared to move for you at no charge....

Is there a reason you are not keen to install anything under the drivers seat? It's a very handy (and stealthy) location

Also, please don't just put up with whine - you have laid such a good SQ foundation with door treatments and great speakers - get the best out of 'em (and amp them up while you are at it!)

Edited by DailyDriver, 09 April 2012 - 11:06 PM.

[shiny_car]

I have been contemplating a further upgrade, maybe an amp such as the Alpine F30 and a slimline sub for under the seat. However I’m not sure how much benefit I would get from the amp. The stock HU produces more than enough volume and the SQ is very good, but.... With the wiring kit and installation I suspect I would be looking at another $500+. Would it be value for money?

Compared with running off a headunit (not a factory amp), even a small amplifier will provide a good improvement, like DailyDriver can attest to. Better power for louder volume, better dynamics for better attack-decay, lower distortion for better clarity, better bandwidth for better bass/treble. Also HP crossovers to filter out the really low subbass that the speakers can't comfortably play, so this will improve clarity too.

Also, what are peoples experience with slimline subs, are they value for money?

Being 'slim' is one thing. It's also important how big the subbox needs to be. Many cheaper slimline subs still require a standard size subbox, say 1-1.5cuft/28-42L for a 12"; so the box can be build slim (shallow), but needs to be long and/or wide to compensate.

So you need to know how much depth is available, and how big the overall box can be. This will determine what subs might suit. They can be good value and perform very well when 'applied' properly. But the good ones - those that tend to work better in smaller boxes - are also more expensive.

The Alpine SWR-T10 10" is an example. Meant to be very good, RRP$549. Modelling its specs, it would be very good in a box as small as 0.4cuft/11L if necessary.

Another big factor is the position of the sub and 'loading'. They don't sound as loud/low under a seat, compared with in a box facing the side/back of the boot to 'bounce'/loud off.

On a final note, sometimes I am hearing the alternator whine, not always but most of the time. The installer has recommended to move the crossovers to under the seat to fix the whine, is that really the only option? What have other VE owners done?

Unsure about "only" option, but sounds reasonable to me. Locate them away from any source of EMI.

[Lutetium]

Wow, there are a lot a friendly, knowable replies, Thanks everyone.

I am looking at the Alpine MRX-F30 as it has a good reputation, offers speaker level inputs and provide plenty of power for its size. Now as I have only upgrade my front splits, what would make the most sense?
Bridging the amp so I use 2 x 150W purely on the Focals in front and leave the HU to power the rears, or run 4 x 50W to the front and rears?

Then If I was only going to use the amp bridged, would it make more sense to just find a 2 channel amp?

[shiny_car]

If there's a chance you'll add a sub in the future to run off the amp, go with the 4-channel. And if you don't really listen to the rears loudly, bridge the amp for the front speakers.