40 replies to this topic

[Equilibrium1990]

Hi all,

So after weeks of mucking around with my setup I've done a full circle back to the beginning.

I started with Alpines recommended .60Cu Ft enclosure for my two Alpine SWR-1043D's. This enclosure was simply to small and did not allow the woofers to move enough to reach their capabilities.

So along came the 1.4Cu ft slot ported enclosure(1.1Cu Ft after all displacements) This thing was ridiculous. SPL was god knows what (HIGH LOL) and SQ? Forget it!

Somewhere between those two enclosures the rubber surround completely detached from the basket :-S I repaired this issue with shoe goo and an MDF ring on the face of each to prevent future issues.

Then after reading through the forums I decided to go back to sealed. Then the .9Cu Ft sealed box was introduced. At first it seemed things where sorted, Sounded a lot clearer and nice and tight again.

But upon revision, They just don't seem right. I mean it's 1200 Watts RMS of sub. I assume they should be thumping?

I had a chance to listed to my old Clarion SVC WG2510's (.7Cu Ft sealed) that i sold to my boss and they are as good or close to it and are 600Watts RMS total.

How can subs that are double the RMS value on the same level as sub woofers with half that RMS value?

At this point I'm lost for answers and am actually fed up with touching it :-( So frustrating!

Any ideas on what my issues could be?

At this point I know I need time alignment, A good tune, Possibly better amplifiers, and knowing my own luck possibly new subs HAHA :-(

[VR028]

i would go back to ported but with low tuning. should get some sq back while keeping decent spl. a well built and designed ported box can still have decent sq.

[bobo333]

what amp do you have? you can have a million watt rated subs but they wont go loud without an appropriate amp powering them

[Equilibrium1990]

A Brutus Hifonics 1200.1D 1200RMS @ 1 ohm running the two dual 4 ohm VC Alpines.

http://www.hifonics....s_BRZ_Amps.html

[Equilibrium1990]

This post was made over at the12volt today actually:

OK its been awhile but I'm sure I know how to do this. OK I have my Hifonics Brutus BRZ 1200.1D hooked up to my 12"Fosgate p3 dvc 4ohm. sub is parallel to 2 ohm.
downloaded a 0db 60htz test tone. stereo bass is at 0 on factory radio. turned amp gain all the way down put digital multimeter on subs with amp hooked up.
2. played test tone in repeat with radio at 3/4 volume
3. I can turn the gain up to 42 volts before i hear any distortion.
If my calculations are right that's around 950 to 975 watts rms out of this amp
my p3 in a slot port enclosure at 1.8 cu, sub settles nicely at this level turned up to max excursion and turned down till sub settled. hits so freaking hard.
I wonder how long this sub will last at 900 rms lol.
I might be looking into getting a new sub soon.
What do you think about this setting?
I don't think my neighbor likes it to much, even though he came out to check it out and He wants a system now. He said I was vibrating his house lol.
Thanks for any comments

He seems to be getting great results out of this amp.

[VR028]

rockford are a slightly louder sub than type r's but they sound like sh*t while doing so. i think your amp is ok but you may have problems elsewhere. have u checked you voltage drops and set your gains correctly?

[Equilibrium1990]

I have a voltage drop which even with a new Optima yellow top, bullcrap 20 farad capacitor and 0 Gauge wire does not go away. Next step is Big 3 :-). And yes I haved used the multimter trick to set the amp at 3/4 H/U volume. No bass boost on or bass remote conected, same with them on tho.

[Equilibrium1990]

Any recomendations on two 10" woofers with 600RMS each worth buying? haha :-P

[VR028]

dial in a touch of bass boost and see if it suits your liking before you buy new subs. there's nothing wrong with type r's there are few subs on the same power that will sound louder if thats what your looking for. maybe rockford p3's but they'll sound like crap. theres a chance hertz hx250's might be a tad louder but nothing noticable

[bob]

When you mention the box sizes in your first post. Is that per sub? or both woofers were in the one box with the total mentioned volume?

[Equilibrium1990]

First sealed enclosure was 1.36Cu Ft total, Ported was around 2.8Cu Ft without port and sub volumes taken out, and my current sealed box is 1.96Cu Ft. All the Youtube videos I've seen have these subs in sealed 3 Cu Ft enclosure and crazy stuff like that :-S and apparently sound amazing. Why do Alpine say .6-1Cu when they supposedly sound awsome as high as 1.5Cu Ft ??

[VR028]

because sometimes marketing shows people like to see that they can put a sub in a small enclosure. best bet is to look at the specs of the sub and let a program like winisd or bass box determine an apropriate box. what was your ported box vent tuned to?

[268669♫]

Also smaller sealed boxes protect the sub more, by reducing xmax and increasing power handling, less dead subs is better for the manufacturer.

Ant

[Equilibrium1990]

• Gross Internal Volume: 1.4 ft³
  
• Vent Area (dimensions): 11 in² (11" x 1")
  
• Vent Length: 18.5"
  
• Vent Displacement: 0.24 ft³
  
• Net Internal Volume (Vb): 1.1 ft³
  
• F³, ripple, Fb: 28Hz, 4.5dB, 35Hz
  
  That's the ported tunning I was running per chamber, As per alpines specifications. It was insanly loud and did sound great on tracks that called for any deep low bass(T-Pain LOL), but anything that was faster then your nanna(Metallica, Skrillex) just sounded like everyone was at the party but the beer had not arrived yet :-P
  
  At the moment everything sounds >OK< but I believe that they are performing well under what thier capable of. Like if the is a drum solo it seems as if the front stage does all the work and the subs just make the backing tone (hard to explain) the bass is little loose and deffinetly out os sync. I need a H/U with time alignment ASAP. Waiting on a new headunit to be release ATM. Few months yet: http://www.pioneerel...ivers/DEH-80PRS
  
  At this point in time I'm gonna hold off and pay my rego and insurance :-S Plus the god damn fridge crapped out and this missed had to have the stainless steel $1500 one of course :-( Then I will look into the best options available for me. I really want some MorelDotech Ovation 6 speakers cause thier selling for $389 a pair :-O Run them off a Alpine PDX-F6, 560RMS of mids and highs would be ridiculous, and maybe two RE Audio SEX12D4's for $260 each to run off the amp I have. Well i can dream anyway haha :-(

[VR028]

what have you got these crossed over at?

[Equilibrium1990]

I tried using the LPF at 80Hz and the HPF at 80Hz on the amps and I've also tried using both amps set to HP/LP OFF and the H/U set to 90Hz H/L filter. Either way I get the same results. I think I need to jump into a sedan with the same or similar subs and have a good listen to the differences so I can better explain the issue. I have a strange feeling that at some point between all the boxes that I have damaged something with the woofers as when the rubber surrounds came loose you could hear them bottoming out and touching the magnet. After the repaired surround one of the two has mad this noise once or twice but generally sounds normal. No clipping or distortion to the ear at the current setting. After my friend gets his two 1243D's going next weekend I will try compare them and if his sound much better I will just buy new subs :-S We are running the same amp and similar sedans, Both falcons.

And on that topic are these:
http://www.ebay.com....984.m1436.l2649

Better then these:
http://www.ebay.com....=item46002eab70

[VR028]

i would try crossing them at a lower frequency like 60 or 50hz. i always found this a far better setting for sq if you have decent speakers. it keeps the bass up front and tight sounding while giving powerful high xmax subs like type r's free reign to deliver the lows with authority. try a lower crossover setting in both boxes once more before you get rid of the subs

[Equilibrium1990]

I have crossed the subs over at that level but not the mids, I'll give that a crack this afternoon, Thanks man. Is there a chance of distortion if I do not ajust my gain @ 60Hz on the mids? The clarion 4 channel is 4 x 90RMS and the alpine splits are 4 x 100RMS so the gain is close to max :-(

[Equilibrium1990]

No good with the crossover settings, Possibly amp issues at this point.

[VR028]

that shouldnt be too hard to check then, see if you can swap the amp out with your friend that has the same one, or wire you subs into his car whatever's easier. see how that goes. the signs are pointing to a defective sub though

[Equilibrium1990]

If a sub is defective, will that affect the Independence load across the two and therefore no longer be presented to the amplifier at 1 ohm? Would that cause the under powering that I think is an issue with my amplifier?

Possibly putting his new amp in on Sunday :-)

[SQXPRT]

4 voice coils means 4x more likely to get one the wrong way around... did you check the wiring all + to +, and all - to - ?

[Equilibrium1990]

yeah man, I also went overkill with the wire gauge. I have two red 8Ga's and two black 8Ga's running to the subs. http://images.the12v...hm_dvc_1ohm.gif

I have tried 12Ga also.

[VR028]

well either way it only takes 1 coil to affect both subs. try wiring one at a time and see if they sound different from each other.

[Equilibrium1990]

My amp does: 1 x 450W @ 4 OHMS, 1 x 900W @ 2 OHMS, 1 x 1200W @ 1 OHM

450RMS should still pound I'd expect?

[VR028]

not really, type r's are a relatively low sensitivity and very power hungry sub. sure you'll get the occasional hater saying they cant handle the power but they need a good 600-700w to get moving

[Equilibrium1990]

ahh, ok. Well if the amps no good I'll grab the 1700RMS @ 1ohm model :-)

I'll go down and test one at a time now lol.

[Equilibrium1990]

OMFG!!! When changing from the ported enclosure to the Sealed enclosure the amplifier was moved to the right side of the car from the left!!! I assumed positive was on the opposite side :-X FACEPALM! Another lesson learned. They are sounding better now but one of them is failing(making a tin like noise, voice coil taping the magnet) this may be due to the rubber surround being misaligned when i repaired it. I will have to pull it apart and redo it or buy a new woofer/woofers :-(. Still not sure why the surround came off a such a new woofer tho?

[TMM]

That's the ported tunning I was running per chamber, As per alpines specifications. It was insanly loud and did sound great on tracks that called for any deep low bass(T-Pain LOL), but anything that was faster then your nanna(Metallica, Skrillex) just sounded like everyone was at the party but the beer had not arrived yet :-P

Hard to avoid that in a sedan boot. Fire it through the ski port, otherwise bash out any speaker blanking plates in the parcel shelf, get parcel shelf grills - anything to allow the boot to vent into the cabin easier. Also try crossing it lower (~60hz) and let your midbasses handle the kicks at 80hz+

Edited by TMM, 01 April 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[Equilibrium1990]

At the moment I have the subs at 80hz and the fronts at 60hz and its blending nicely, Plenty more kick. I have to cut a 10" hole in the parcel shelf cover to port the boot through the factory 10" sub hole in the parcel tray. I dont have premium sound so the was no hole in the cover. I may just buy the premium sound parcel tray cover from a wrecker and put that in :-)