27 replies to this topic

[Damon]

So I'm enjoying seeing Apple get the smack laid down on them around the globe for having marketed to iPad as a 4G (LTE) compatible device when this aspect is only compatible with USA and Canadian services. Indeed, a work coleague purchased one last week and came storming into my office on Firday proclaiming that he was 'ripped' off' because apparently his shiny new iPad was not 4G compatible when he thought it was.

After the initial case in Australia it seems other countries around the globe are following suit, but ths begs another question.

Why is it that Apple are a newsworthy target when other industries - such as car audio - can get away with often blatantly misleading, false or grossly incorrect marketing every day of every week of every year?

As a glowing example, car amplifier and head unit 'peak' power ratings have been used as the primary marketing tool of sales for decades without fear of recrimination.

If Apple launched a car amplifier with peak power ratings they'd be lambasted, but every other manufacturer can do it and its A-okay!

What do you guys reckon?

[scraverX]

I think you raise a good point but there are a few ways to look at it, with regard to audio at least.

Part of the population want to see big numbers on amps so they can brag to their mates.

Part of the population don't care so long as it works.

Part of the population know better.

The first two of these groups are larger then then the third, therefore 'good marketing' could be the interpretation.

Tablets (iPad etc) and 4G are an emergant technology, on top of that 'hard core' apple fans expect Apple to "get it right". The 4G iPad only being compatible with US and Canadian networks is an example of them not getting it right and the afore mentiond 'hard core' fans are like to get their undergarment of choice in a tangle over it.

[Big_Valven]

Peak power ratings are still power ratings. In many cases it's still a legitimate capability of the amplifier under certain criteria. There is no requirement for manufacturers to publish test methods or criteria.

I understand what you mean from a human side, but from a technical side 90% of brands available locally market legally and legitimately regardless of whether we feel they're portraying their product in an accurate way or not.

[perrin_07]

Didnt someone on here post something about Alpines "Up to 70%" off sale? I guess its the same thing with car audio, its a technicality.

Regarding the Ipad, did it claim it had 4G everywhere? Is this another technicality in its wording?

[Sorin-Andrei]

As Callum said - the difference in quoting a peak power rating is that the product can still do that power given a certain circumstance. If, for example, a car audio manufacturer were to call their amplifier "digital" when in fact not a single part of it was, that would be misleading. This is what's happened with Apple - they marketed a product as 4G when it's not 4G capable in any market outside US and Canada...

[scraverX]

I think Big_V and Sorin just made my point in a lot less words.

[Mr. Drifter]

I think it's because mac has a lot of hate... Think about it, there is at least a third of the population (a random guess) who think mac is overpriced and terrible.. so they probably have people sitting on the edges of their seats waiting for something to go wrong, just to prove to people mac isn't good... but it's probably also due to how it went along, it started off pretty averagely, made some pretty bad os's and computers, but now is going alright.. You would think microsoft would be in a similar boat os wise, but they've been producing decent os's for a while (except vista)
that's my theory anyway

have we all forgotten the powervox amplifiers? 5000watt 4 channel, and the rated power is actually 50rms. ebay is horrible for amps sometimes

[perrin_07]

people love to hate.

[Dylby1]

people love to hate.

i love pizza...

I agree with the OPs meaning, but possibly not the example haha.
The amps rated to 11ty7 watts of powahhhh probably are capable of that, under certain situations and criteria.
And they dont claim that it'll run at that power for any particularly decent amount of time. Just that it will do it...

[ubernoob]

Weren't Apple saying they didn't promote that the iPaad was 4G compatible and that it was the providersmaking the false claims?

As to the amps and power, it is like old HP ratings that were done in perfect conditions with no air filter, mufflers etc etc. The cars did make the stated power, just not with all of the factory parts on the car.

I am an Apple hater not because it is a poor product but because of the smugness of Apple owners/experts, they are like Hybrid owners that constantly need to tell the rest of the world they are wrong.

[Mr. Drifter]

i'm the same as ubernoob, but also because they're overpriced... you can buy a computer, same specs, with windows for a lot cheaper... and then you can build one cheaper still. it works out like 1/3 of the price to build your own computer and run os-x

Mac is worse than alienware for paying for the logo

Edited by Mr. Drifter, 02 April 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[data_mine]

As to the amps and power, it is like old HP ratings that were done in perfect conditions with no air filter, mufflers etc etc. The cars did make the stated power, just not with all of the factory parts on the car.

Exactly, Peak/PMPO and the old method of measuring engine HP are both 100% accurate, correct and legal (assuming no cheating going on). Just because you can never match said measuring method at home, is not the point.

Apple, marketed a device in Australia as 4G compatible, in Australia it isn't. False advertising, fraud etc.

And the only reason Apple get's picked on, is they're popular, so media loves to publish about them because it earns more ratings/advertising dollars.
Same reason Microsoft got bashed all the time years ago. MS was 'THE' thing to talk about, so the media would do whatever they could to talk about them more.

[Damon]

Interesting. So there's absolute 100% truth in all car audio marketing then?

550W 6x9s...

http://www.pioneer.c...984S/index.html


JVC only makes ones that handle 80WRMS...

http://www.jvc.com.a...akers/cs-hx6948

Edited by Damon, 02 April 2012 - 02:00 PM.

[Dylby1]

those pioneer ones are 80w RMS with 550w peak

the JVC are 80w RMS with 490w peak..

im confused to the meaning of your post...

[perrin_07]

Damon, how much would that turn customers away? Comparing the speakers powers. Do you feel the need to mention it in your reviews?


My point Dylby1, regardless of the product or brand, there will be haters no matter what. Apple could do something absolutely fantastic with no flaws in it what so ever, but there will be people who will find a way to hate it.

[Damon]

My point is that it is funny how Apple are held so strictly accountable for facts when other electronics segment have been allowed to be unaccountable for decades.

Thought it stood for a more interesting topic than the norm.

[Lunchbox.inc]

im confused to the meaning of your post...

+1


i have no doubt i could put 550rms into those pioneers, and i have no doubt they'd play for a little while, maybe not long but you could do it, as they're not advertised as being able to take a continuous 550rms for long periods of time, i see no issue...

this is a great thread, i'm enjoying some of the feedback here...!!

i think Big Val summed it up pretty well!

[Captn_Awesome]

Damon your mate must have had his head up his arse in the weeks prior to the iPad2 being released because there was media everywhere about the fact that Apple had created a product that wouldnt be compatible with our local 4G network (which incidentally was announced around the same time). Hell there were several articles about it in the HWTs tabliod paper.
Add to that another manufacturer of tablets and smartphones went out of their way to highlight that their product was 4G compatible where "others were not"

Then you have a technology and a market that is emerging and evolving and people are excited by it. Most people dont give a rats ring about car audio. For example have 20 employees in my office and factory. 2 of us are interested in car audio and have "aftermarket" car audio products. Yet every one of my employees has some type of smart phone with the majority having an Apple, HTC or samsung product.

Your not comparing like markets.

It would be different if say Holden was to come out and say "we've created a 7000kW 9000nM animal for our Commodore" only for us to find out that it wouldnt be suited to be used in Australia because it runs on "unobtainium rocket fuel"
People would care. It would be of interest in the papers.
But these days there is hardly any information about car audio products in daily papers. Herald sun used to have a segment on a wednesday called connect and 1 in 10 issues "might" have something on a car audio/electronics product - mostly some new FM transmitter for your MP3 player or a new portable GPS device.

Edited by ~Sparkles~, 02 April 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Big_Valven]

Interesting. So there's absolute 100% truth in all car audio marketing then?

You've been involved in car audio marketing Damon

i have no doubt i could put 550rms into those pioneers, and i have no doubt they'd play for a little while, maybe not long but you could do it, as they're not advertised as being able to take a continuous 550rms for long periods of time, i see no issue...

Very well put. Car audio marketing is a loosely regulated format, that isn't to imply people will market dishonestly, but that they will market within their regulation.

[muzzy66]

As with most of the above, Apple are being attacked because they are stating the device is 4G capable, when it is not. If that is advertised here in Oz (where it isn't so capable) then that is a blatant lie trying to deceive customers into buying their product.

I have a HTC Velocity which is 4G capable, and honestly that's the biggest reason I got it. Imagine if I chose the model for this reason, only to later find out it doesn't even support it? I'd be pissed.

The car audio example is different because its not a lie, just a gross exaggeration.

Hyundai advertising a new car with 250kw when it only realistically makes 120kw is not the same as them advertising it as 'one of the worlds first flying cars' when it cannot fly at all.

[~Samuel~]

What do you guys reckon?

Honestly... Probably one of the worst threads i have ever seen

[ubernoob]

I suppose Apple stockists seem a lot better informed than some of the car audio retailers out there, Apple geeks really seem to know their stuff.

Last week when buying a sub a salesperson told me they were replacing a guys name brand amp because it kept blowing his speakers(6.5 or 6x9s) because it didn't make clean power and it was more for Euro and US cars that have 8" midbass speakers and our local cars don't have that sort of thing. If the salesperson walked away from his victim I would have bought the supposedly bad amp then and there.

I would love to see the peak power spec on amps and speakers scrapped but I can't see it ever happening.

[D34M0N.inc]

I agree in the right circumstances they can handle or produce that power, were with apple ipad there is no circumstances at there release date that will allow them to run 4g here. The whole idea of it being the same is a rather flawed view.

[~Samuel~]

Still going?

[ubernoob]

I don't get the hate for this thread.

Internet providers usually mention phrases like "with download speeds up to......." which I guess is the same as amplifier manufacturers choosing to list peak output specs.

I would love to see ISPs have to list their average upload and dowload speeds for my local area but I can't see that ever happening.

[Damon]

Maybe I should have just asked another "what's the best" question...

[LightBulb .inc]

It would be different if say Holden was to come out and say "we've created a 7000kW 9000nM animal for our Commodore" only for us to find out that it wouldnt be suited to be used in Australia because it runs on "unobtainium rocket fuel"

If Holden brought out a car like that then it would be a Holden I'd actually want to buy!!

Honestly... Probably one of the worst threads i have ever seen

Maybe I should have just asked another "what's the best" question...

That's a good point Damon has, this is an interesting topic outside of our usual threads and applies to all marketing we come across. So shush up Sam

[TMM]

Apple get picked on because they spend more time trying to sue everyone who produces better products rather than improving their own products.

Misinformation like that only affects people who are too ignorant to research if the product is really suitable for their needs. Same applies to car audio - if someone is happy with their '550W' Pioneer 4-way 6x9s then good for them, and i'll quietly laugh at them