33 replies to this topic

[Aussierox]

Hey guys as some of you may know I competed in my first round of intermediate last night.

I didn't do too badly with a score of 113 which I thought was good for my first int comp.

My biggest issue was my low stage height (due to running passive which shall be fixed soon) and for whatever reason which I can't seem to figure out, my right side tweeter is quieter than the left one (if anything it should be louder given that it's closer to me....).

I am running the DLS up6i componant speakers using the passive crossovers in the factory locations (tweeters in the dash) in my el falcon.

I would like to increase the volume of the right tweeter but unfortunately on the crossovers I have adjustments of -2 0 +1 and +1.5db both xovers are currently set to +1.5db.

I was wondering if setting the right tweeter to +1 or 0db to ballance it out with the right tweeter would work? Although I Think this would ballance out the tweeters more wouldn't it just make the tweeters too quiet overall compared to the sub,midbass and midrange?

[SQXPRT]

It might be the mounting location which makes the tweeter seem quieter..
if you can swap them over with each other and see if the problem stays on one side.. or maybe the crossover isn't quite right.

definitely needs more investigation though.

[peaandham]

I would follow Pulse-R's suggestion of swapping them over, but apart from that then your idea of dropping the other one down in values will work, just getting the right mix will be the fun part. I would be setting the left one to 0db however as If its that noticeable now I don't see .5db doing much.

As for the tweeters then being dominant over the mids, with the P80rs can you boost or decrease the level of certain frequency's? Im not too familiar with that unit but if you can somehow use the built in Xovers to leave the treble untouched and just lower the level of everything under 4k (of where ever your tweeter is crossed at).

[Aussierox]

I tried leaving the right tweeter on 1.5db and turning the left tweeter down to 0db which didn't make the slighest difference, the left tweeter was still louder than the right so I went all the way down to -3db so that there's a 4.5db difference between the two yet the left tweeter was still louder than the right, I don't think the level adjustment did anything :/

I'm also quite confused as to why there's a distortion in the tweeter on the whiste when playing Isn't she lovely.

[peaandham]

What do you have them crossed at? Is the polarity correct? Im thinking it could be wired around the wrong way, that could explain both issues.

[Aussierox]

I'm not sure what they're crossed at since I'm running passive and what do you mean wrong way? The phase is definately correct as i've had mark from FCA check it with a phase checker.

[peaandham]

Oh ok well that puzzles me then. Perhaps have a chat to Mark and see what he can recommend.

[SQXPRT]

if you have the tweeters sitting on top of the dash, do they sound the same?

[Aussierox]

if you have the tweeters sitting on top of the dash, do they sound the same?

I'm not sure, haven't tried as they're screwed in the factory locations under the dash plate and I don't really have time today to pull it apart.

Mark and adam seem to think it may be my polk amp and I am replacing that in a few weeks time so I guess I'll see if that fixes the distortion I'm just confused as to how a 2 channel amp running passive could cause the tweeters to be at different levels.

[peaandham]

Faulty amps, can cause many headaches, one channel could just be a little damaged.

[Aussierox]

I'm hoping it's not a problem with the tweeters since I'd really rather not buy new tweeters but I guess I'll see in a few weeks time as it seems like there is no simple fix to this if adjusting the levels made no difference.

[IamtheSteg]

Try swapping the amp channels, if the lower level stays on the same side u can rule the amp out as the problem. If the lower level switches as you swap then it a pretty safe bet that the prob is in the amp...

[~Spyne~]

I actually think the 'distortion' sound from the tweeter is more to do with crossover and placement, than amplifier, having now heard what it sounds like.

[Aussierox]

I actually think the 'distortion' sound from the tweeter is more to do with crossover and placement, than amplifier, having now heard what it sounds like.

You know until I listened to your car I couldn't hear it in my car but now, it irritates me its a constant fuzz over the top of the whistle.

Is it normal for the xover circuit board to have what looks like dried clear glue around the components? Or is this a sign of melting? I can't see why it would melt.

[~Spyne~]

It's normal. It's to hold the components in place and stop them from vibrating loose.
You get the exact same inside amplifiers.

[Aussierox]

It's normal. It's to hold the components in place and stop them from vibrating loose.
You get the exact same inside amplifiers.

I thought as much, just wanted to make sure. It would be so nice if it turns out they're faulty crossovers since active will fix that completely not long now

Is there a possibility it could be the head unit? That's the only thing I've changed in my system recently and I didn't have the distortion a few weeks ago before I got my TA head unit.
Or perhaps even the RCA lead I'm using (the old one snapped on one end so I had to put a new one in the same day I put the new HU in).

Edited by Aussierox, 28 May 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[~Spyne~]

could be wiring/RCA, could be crossover, could be crossover point, could be tweeter, could be amplifier.
just a matter of eliminating the possibilities one at a time.

[Aussierox]

could be wiring/RCA, could be crossover, could be crossover point, could be tweeter, could be amplifier.
just a matter of eliminating the possibilities one at a time.

Well in that case I'll wait till my new project as it will fix the crossover issues, but first I'll try a different RCA on my current setup. I have a spare rockford fosgate rca lying around somewhere.

[SQXPRT]

plug the iPod directly into the amplifier and see if it has the same distortion.

[Aussierox]

You can do that?

[SeptemberSquallIndustries]

Look at this on eBay:

3.5MM AUX PLUG TO 2-RCA STEREO AV AUDIO CABLE FOR IPOD Wire Speaker Cord CABLE

http://bit.ly/Jz16wJ

[~Spyne~]

or just go to d*** smith and buy the same thing without having to pay postage or wait for it to be shipped.

[SeptemberSquallIndustries]

I wasn't necessarily suggesting he buy it there, just demonstrating that yes, "you can do that" = )

[Aussierox]

Ahh alright well something like that would be useful to test if the HU is the problem, I'll make sure I head into DS sometime this week (although the ebay option even with postage will probably be 1/2 the price) and pick one up, I assume I just unplug the RCAS from the back of the amp and then plug the ipod straight in and the speaker volume is then controlled by the volume of the ipod?

I wonder how easy it will be to tell the levels of the tweeters given that TA won't exist when my ipods plugged in?

Edited by Aussierox, 30 May 2012 - 10:40 AM.

[2013FOCUS]

TA will have no effect on the levels, Daniel.
You are not changing the physical location or output levels of the drivers..

And yes, the volume will be controlled from the iPlod.. turn the iPlod volume down before plugging it in to the amp.
AND make sure you have the system off when you disconnect and reconnect the RCA's

Mark

[~Spyne~]

AND make sure you have the system off when you disconnect and reconnect any of the RCA's

THIS!!!! Extremely important, especially when working with a Pioneer headunit. (they have internal pico-fuses which blow VERY easily if you try to 'hot-swap' RCAs with the headunit turned on)

[Aussierox]

THIS!!!! Extremely important, especially when working with a Pioneer headunit. (they have internal pico-fuses which blow VERY easily if you try to 'hot-swap' RCAs with the headunit turned on)

Alright well I'll try that out asap and don't worry guys I've never once 'hot swapped' an RCA up until recently I didn't know it could harm the system but I always thought it wasn't a good idea to do so I never did it and dont plan on it!

[Aussierox]

So turns out I already had one lying around at home, I used it and honestly couldn't hear a difference in tweeter levels while playing music (may have been there, was hard to tell without a stage having to move left and right) but then I got the idea to try swapping the left and right channels on the head unit and use pink noise and an SPL meter on my phone (i'm sure it's not %100 accurate but it will show a difference in levels)

Using the RCA to ipod cable I did however find that the distortion in the tweeters still exists so that narrows it down to either the amp, crossovers or tweeters themselves.

So my findings from the spl meter, pink noise and swapping the rcas on the head unit (at the amp end)

Wrong way round 90.5db each tweeter

Right way round
Right side 85db
Left side 95db

So it appears that there's a 10db difference and the right side is indeed quieter but what I don't understand is when I swap them around the other way why doesn't the left side then go down to 85db and the right up to 95db? why do they ballance out?

[TMM]

I think you have two seperate issues.

First issue:
right tweeter is -5db for some reason - either mounting position, speaker cable, amp or the tweeter itself. Don't forget that the angling can have a huge impact on tweeter frequency response. Pointing off axis can easily get you -10db compared to on-axis. Reflections can also cause cancellation leading to a quiet and/or harsh sounding tweeter.

Second issue:
right channel signal going to the amp is also -5db for some reason (faulty headunit or rca cable?)

Together they add up to -10db.

When you switch the RCAs around the second issue affects the left tweeter instead so you have -5db affecting each tweeter so they measure the same on the SPL meter.

The ipod cable test should have eliminated the second issue.

To test the headunit try swapping the RCAs around on the back of the headunit. If the levels change then the headunit is the problem.
To test the RCA cable switch the RCAs around on both the headunit and the amp. If the levels change then the RCA cable is the problem.

Edited by TMM, 30 May 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[Aussierox]

Hmm I see. We'll I'm going to have to try those options you've sugested. As for the ipod test, I couldn't tell by ear if the levels had been fixed or not so I'll put the pink noise mp3 I have on my ipod and try the ipod test again after work tonight.