23 replies to this topic

[Ben DePellegrini]

Here's one that I was thinking about today while finding a dodgy oil pickup in DDEFFN...

Do subwoofers need to be warmed up to perform at optimum / prevent damage, or not? Afterall they are a mechanical device, so are susceptible to stresses (both thermal and mechanical).

Are we shortening the lifespan of our VC motor suspension by going to Vol:11 from cold? Or am I getting paranoid because i've spent the last 4 hours covered in grease and oil?

Benno.

[peaandham]

Ive noticed that once the speakers warm up they do sound a little different and I would probably say they sound better, Id imagine the same principal works for subs aswell.

Unless the speakers freeze over I don't see any damage possible.

[frogslapper]

From a mechanical point of view i would be surprised if it made any difference.
Unless we are talking extreme cold.

From a sq point of view i think full range speakers sound better once warmed up.
The same with amps,tube amps maybe even more important.

Mine you the difference is small.

[ubernoob]

Haha strange, the other day I was wondering if in an SPL install you could run a CO2 fogger in the VC vent to keep it cooler when burping.

I image glue would be more brittle when cold and bits wouldn't flex like they would when warm so I'd say it would make a difference.

[TMM]

http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp.html

I don't think you'd see any significant difference except for speakers with ferrofluid - and even then you'd have to be really pushing them to the limits to get a change.

[SQXPRT]

That link is exactly what I have been banging on about for years.

Warmup is important, as we all find out from time to time in competition.

[TMM]

Most of the difference would be due to the magnet temperature, and the flexibility of soft parts, which aren't going to be affected much by just running the speakers. Ambient temperature will affect those much more, so you can expect to hear a difference if it's a really cold or hot day.

I certainly notice a lack of low end from my midbasses on very cold mornings, which only goes away after blasting the heater for 20-30mins. I can't say i've noticed any difference on exceptionally hot days.

[bobo333]

this is all for SQ though, for SPL you want coils (and amps) as cold as possible

Edited by bobo333, 17 June 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[Ben DePellegrini]

this is all for SQ though, for SPL you want coils (and amps) as cold as possible

The same as a Dyno for a car. Colder engines make more power, but the cost is potential irreversible damage. While I understand the electronic side of things, the subwoofers as a mechanical device still have me skeptical (from a longevity perspective). After a crap day at work, I still give them a 5 minute "grace period" before I massage myself back to happiness.

Interesting with respect to SQ though, i'd like to see it in person someday

[Banana_Boat]

can't see it making a difference. It's like many things, we don't let our lawnmower, whipper snipper or the leaf blower warm up ? same with the air con lol blast it hot or cold straight away. I can't see it doing anything bad. Plus i had never heard of anything like this happening before. ( correct me if i wrong )...

[089JAY]

From an SPL point of view, My NW Car loved being hot, 3db difference hot to cold, the bigest thing we put this down to was panels being stiffer and resonance changing when the car was cold.

[bobo333]

the car may have liked being hot but im guessing the amp and subs didnt like being hot?

[PULS8]

well l heard in countrys where it snows n that you need to play quiet then work ya way up on the knob , as the surround , suspension n all can freeze and do damage if play with full power straight away, but here in aus it dont get that cold so all good, l used to play full tilt first thing in the morning was greeat everything cold .. voltage high

[Big_Valven]

I figure the best thing you can do for SQ is bring everything up to temperature as quickly as possible

The variance in a woofer's mechanical properties between ~5 degrees and ~50 degrees isn't likely to be much more than the difference between some woofers brand new versus ~200 hours of play time. There are always variations, but in my opinion there's no reason to worry about mechanical failure within normal in-car temperatures, I guess you could say between 0 and 70 degrees C. I have had some woofers fail in heat, but that's while they were not being used (in-car.) So if they'll fail, they'll probably fail anyway.

The difference in sound from an SQ perspective in-car with temperature changes is probably more to do with the car's structure and the air in it than the drivers themselves, too.

[Charger]

Absolute wank.


NEXT!

[~Samuel~]

Absolute wank.
NEXT!

Someone obviously got bored with the Charger forums

[~Spyne~]

Having judged and competed for over 5 years, I can honestly say that there is a definite difference in sound, mostly in the sub/mid-bass region, when the temperature inside the vehicle is cold (<~15C) compared to hot (>~30C).
Tweeters can also experience a small difference in sound between temperature extremes.

[Captn_Awesome]

Adam do you believe this is to do with the temperature of the equipment OR rather the affect of air temp on how sound travels.
I'd suggest the latter. When I used to bump in rigs if we were doing an outside festival or a festival in a big shed you'd d*** around for hours on end during the day trying to get things to sound 'right'. But as soon as the sun went to bed and that temp dropped and I guess a bit of moisture in the air it was like someone removed something from between you and the speakers and everything just opened up. Now I know that by this point in time the motors are fricken hot so the only change really is that of the air temp.

Absolute wank.


NEXT!

LOL

[~Spyne~]

Again, to be honest I'm not sure, Kirk.
I would guess that it has more to do with the environment, than the operating temperature of the equipment (though HOT amps are never a good thing).
Though 'logic' is telling me that warm rubber surrounds and warm spiders are going to move more 'freely' than cold ones...

[Captn_Awesome]

yeah I think your right but I dont think that it would be enough to make a noticable audible difference. Realistically a spider should retain integrity.
Certainly not enough that it would make a difference to the life expectancy of the speaker either.

[Big_Valven]

+1 for the air and car having more of an effect than the speaker's characteristics themselves.

[ryzaa]

How about how you are personally reacting to the temperature?
It could be uncomfortably cold, to the point where it draws attention away from the stereo, so you may miss finer details, or not enjoy it as much, due to being too cold. Or you may notice more things, as some people concentrate better when its cold, the mind notices more things.

You could be angsty as its a cold morning and the kids or wife or someone is complaining, about it. You had a coffee to warm up, and you are a bit jittery. Had one too many wines last night in an effort to try and get some sleep, you dont notice it, but it affects your perception slightly the next morning during the drive to work and you think your favourite track sounds a bit off...

Or it could be slightly too hot, your mind wanders, you get a bit sleepy, you may enjoy this more, be almost slightly dazed? Or the heat could be something you dont enjoy, and so you judge the sound slightly harder then you normally do.

You may be dreading getting to work, where temperatures are unbearable, and its playing on your mind somewhat. Get in the car and burn your hand on the steering wheel, fingers are a bit sore for the drive home, and something just sounds a bit fuzzy in "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" or maybe its that slight head cold...

I think how it is all reacting with the environment, and how the environment and you are reacting together have a bit more to do with it..

But those are just some cold wintery day thoughts of mine

[Winno]

Having experience in judging cars as well, yes, warm gear DOES sound better.
And I'd put it down to gear more than the actual air temp. as home audio, in a much larger space, does same.
Home gear has less effect on the ambient room temp.
I'd imagine that cooler (more dense) air would assist things - warm gear and cooler air is good.

Edited by Winno, 30 June 2012 - 04:26 PM.

[SQXPRT]

It's definitely the gear having the main effect - and the air temp/humidity to a lesser extent.

To get the same imaging on a cold day to a hot day can be as little as 0.05ms change in the time delay, and up to 45º in phase.

To change the temperature of the equipment changes tonality more than imaging, but both do change from cold to "operating" temperature.