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Could use some help choosing SQ sub.


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#1 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:11 AM

Hey guys pretty soon I'm looking at replacing my two rockfords with a single 12" sub better suited to sq.

I've come up with four choices,
DLS Nordica 12"
http://dls.se/en/car...?produkt=en_824
Arc Audio Arc 12
http://store.arcaudi...5624.0.0.0?pp=8
IDQv3 12"

Arc Audio Black 12
http://store.arcaudi...0514.0.0.0?pp=8

I'm aiming for a sub that sounds great and blends with the midbass well but I would also like the ability to go semi loud (still keeping the bass at sq level but turning the volume up) when listening to bass heavy music (Dubstep)

My biggest issue is I only have about 360w rms to play with which one of my current 12" goes loud enough on but I'm not sure how sensitivity ratings and rms play a role with different subs.

Just wondering what you guys think of these subs?

Edited by Aussierox, 07 August 2012 - 10:20 AM.


#2 ~Spyne~

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:21 AM

Also note that Daniel will be using a pair of bridged channels to power the sub, so he can either have an SVC4 or DVC2+2 sub.

Daniel, what is your budget? This might help people to come up with ideas about what subs to suggest.

#3 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

Oh right I should probably mention my budget would be $600-700 but the cheaper the better.

#4 thebookfreak58

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:02 AM

I had an IDQ10V3D2 in a 1cuft box running off a bridged KS300.4, so receiving around 350WRMS. Sounded golden and could thump if needed :)

I hear good things about Arc subs though.

#5 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:19 AM

I had an IDQ10V3D2 in a 1cuft box running off a bridged KS300.4, so receiving around 350WRMS. Sounded golden and could thump if needed :)

I hear good things about Arc subs though.


I didn't think a single 10" would be capable of doing something like that.

#6 Big_Valven

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:36 PM

Personally I've never liked how IDQs sound, the Black 12 is definitely my pick in that range! Holy pole piece vent!

Otherwise, an IDMAX would also be a good comparison to the Black.

#7 peaandham

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:50 PM

Have you had a listen to the Morel SC that Brian is running in his car? I love mine, its a terrific little sub, if I wanted to buy an SQ sub again, the SC would be my first choice once again.

#8 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:58 PM

I'd love a morel sc or even the arc black but I've been told that 360w rms would not be enough power for either of these subs :(

#9 peaandham

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:04 PM

Hmmm, Id imagine 360wrms would be suitible for an SC 12, however someone would have to model it or perhaps run it by Brian or Mark as they would know it better than I.

#10 2013FOCUS

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:11 PM

The Zuki isn't able supply the power to be able get the best from an SC, Luke (It had been discussed previously :) )

#11 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:32 PM

Well so far it seems like the dls is the leader here, good sensitivity, works well off low power, is the same brand as my front stage and will apparently sound great only thing I need to decide now is wether it's worth the extra money over an arc 12.

#12 broadz

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:54 PM

Ide choose the matching 12 inch DLS in the same range (ultimate) as your front speakers.

#13 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:26 PM

Ide choose the matching 12 inch DLS in the same range (ultimate) as your front speakers.


I think they make a 15" ultimate iridium sub not sure about the 12"

#14 MAS Andrew

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 03:31 PM

Nordica is in the Ultimate range of products..

#15 muzzy66

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 09:32 PM

Single Subs
The DLS Nordica looks good..I was looking into that sub myself a while back. I'm not sure how it measures in terms of distortion etc, but for an 'SQ focussed' sub it definately looks to have some pretty good output potential. Good sensitivity (if the listed specs are truly 1w/1m), good displacement, solid power handling, and models out really nicely. When I was looking at potential replacements before the Nordica came out second to the IDMAX in terms of SQ subs that looked like they could really take a pounding...I think it may have potential if the soud quality is as good as DLS claims.

The previous generation IDQ was a proven performer - I've seen measurements and i was a legitimate low distorton subwoofer, up there with the Peerless XXLS. The new version looks great, but whether i will actually perform as good as the old one is anyones guess. It looks like a completely different design to the previous gen model so there is no evidence to suggest it will peform at the same level outside of Image Dynamic's own claims (and obviously they're going to say it's better). My concern with the IDQ is output - from what I recall the old one had quite high sensitivity, but I think this new one is down aroud 85dB which is a bit below average for a 12". When you have limited power available (and want to be able to play loud) the last thing you want is a sub with modest sensitivity.

The ARC12 I can't really comment a lot on - unfortuantely in the above links the specs provided are sparse to say the least . It doesn't specify how the sensitivity is measured (2.83V vs 1W), doesn't specify xmax and the cone area (31.4m?) makes no sense at all. I would suggest the 89dB sensitivity listed would be at 2.83V/1m (measured on a 4ohm load) unless proven otherwise, because that would convert to about 86dB 1w/1m which is about right for a 12" subwoofer. If I'm right then that's about average sensitivity for a 12" woofer, and should drive slightly (if not much ) louder then the IDQ given the 300W you have available.

The Black 12 I can say even less about, because they specify no real useful information at all on that link. If you can throw me something with a little more information then I can tell you a lot more, but the specifications listed on that page are too sparse to really be useful.

Other options
If output is what you're after and space is not so big an issue, I'd also seriously considering stepping outside the square and looking at the option of either a single 15" (like an SB Acoustics SB42FHC75) or a pair of modestly priced but nice sounding 12's (such as the Peerless XXLS). Either option is going to generally give you significantly higher senstiivity then a single 12" sub, and when you have limited power available that is critical to achieving high output potential. Both options will typically give you better sound quality as well, because higher displacement means that individual subs don't need to work as hard, which means less distortion and cleaner sound.

Don't fall for the myth that smaller drivers are more accurate either - a 15" with a good motor (like a JBL GTO) can play flat to 800hz and beyond, while a not-so-good 8" sub with a mediocre motor may struggle to play clean up to 80hz.

Back to output - just to give an example, the sensitivity on that SB Acoustics 15" is about 90dB @ 1w/1m. This is roughly 3dB-4dB higher then the sensitivity of an average 12" sub, and a gain of 3dB output equates to a doubling of input power. That means this SB42 would theoretically go about as loud off 300W as an average 12" would go off 600W, so if loud-and-clear is what you want, it's a legitimate option to consider.

Using a pair of low distortion 12's can also give you a similar effect. You essentially gain +3dB in sensitivity by adding a second driver, so a pair of 12's off 300W will also give you about as much output as a single 12" (of similar sensitivity) running off 600W.

#16 ~Spyne~

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:03 PM

Don't fall for the myth that smaller drivers are more accurate either - a 15" with a good motor (like a JBL GTO) can play flat to 800hz and beyond, while a not-so-good 8" sub with a mediocre motor may struggle to play clean up to 80hz.

I think you mean the GTi, Pete?
In any case, I agree with pretty much everything you posted.
The DLS looks to be a great sub, and the previous generation of IDQ were genuinely capable SQ subs.
I also had the thought that 2x Peerless XLS or XXLS subs would be a great option worth considering - great sensitivity, good xmax and their 'rated' power handling would match up pretty well with the output potential of the Zuki amp.

#17 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:11 PM

I think I may have calculated wrong. If my amp is 90w rms @4 ohms per channel or 180w @2 ohms if I'm running a DVC 2 ohm sub in series won't that mean than rather than get the 360w rms @2 ohms I've actually been getting 180w rms at 4 ohms or is it different because it's bridged?

#18 ~Spyne~

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:24 PM

When you connect a 4ohm sub (so a DVC2+2 sub wired in series) to a pair of bridged channels, each channel 'sees' 2ohms, and so you get the rated power of each channel at 2ohms, multiplied by 2 (I've explained this to you before in PMs)
So with the Zuki, it is rated as ~90wrms @ 4ohm per channel, and therefore about 150-180wrms @ 2ohms per channel. Bridge 2 channels together and you get about 300-360wrms @ 4ohms.

#19 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 10:26 PM

Oh I see. Sorry I had forgotten exactly how it worked and just wanted to make sure I had it correct. This wiring stuff can be confusing sometimes :/

#20 MAS Andrew

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:20 PM

Perfect for the single vc DLS Gothia..

#21 Aussierox

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Posted 07 August 2012 - 11:37 PM

Isn't it a Nordica?

#22 MAS Andrew

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 12:21 AM

Oops.. Always get them mixed up..
Both high end DLS ranges.. I have Gothia 6.3 in my car..

#23 Aussierox

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 03:43 PM

So I've decided on the DLS to match my frontstage and for its high sensitivity it will do well on lower power.

I'm quite excited now :D

#24 MAS Andrew

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:49 PM

A good choice..

#25 Aussierox

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:17 PM

I thought so :D

I will be running it in the prefab box for a few weeks just so It can have more time to run in then when I get the money for a proper box I'll have it built.

#26 Aussierox

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 08:35 PM

That is of course assuming it will run safely in the prefab box although it will not sound great it's just to run it in while I save for a decent box.

#27 2013FOCUS

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:24 PM

It will be fine..
As you say, essqq's will be average but it will work

The correct enclosure will bring out its best when it's done

#28 Aussierox

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 09:28 PM

Well I am certain you will build a really good enclosure for it and hopefully it will fit in the hole next to the tank

#29 muzzy66

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:44 PM

I think you mean the GTi, Pete?


Correct :D

Oops.. Always get them mixed up..
Both high end DLS ranges.. I have Gothia 6.3 in my car..


It's ok, I used to keep mixing them up as well haha :)

#30 TEGBOY

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:57 PM

I can't wait to get my 3 Nordica 10's finally installed to go with my Nordica 6.3 front stage, I think I had the first set in the country of both the Gothia's and the Nordica.. and now the last to install them... just gotta arrange it with Mark!

Edited by TEGBOY, 10 August 2012 - 06:58 PM.