28 replies to this topic

[APS]

Of course you would because on some headunits its a glorified bass boost function as suggested above.

Which means by switching it on you cannot go as loud on the volume dial as you were before because ur system might be tuned without.

Like i said dont mistake that for a magic fairy dust bass fix.

[Marc ♫]

On any of the head units I have owned / used the LOUD feature has zero'd out by the time you get to above normal (listening volume) which is where I tune (a bit higher than my normal listening level).

This was also the way I did when I once owned a shop and was actually paid by many customers soley to tune their cars for SQ.

For the record I have always left LOUD on. I guess that means I know nothing about SQ then...

[TUN35]

I agree with Marc.

If you have correctly setup your system you shouldn't have a problem tuning with LOUD on as generally it fades to nothing at around 60-65% of your headunits max volume.

In saying that everyone has there personal preference of how they like to tune there system. So in the end it's upto you

[Marc ♫]

Your right bro ... but what I am sick of is people attacking other members for having a differing opinion or asking the question.

In this thread alone ...

Quote

Dude if i were i would get back in your hole and learn what LOUDNESS on a headunit actually does.

Quote

I think you need to learn a few things about Car Audio before you try to tell me what it actually does. Considering i own a car audio business and have been an installer for a number of years i think i should know.

That fact alone doesn't make you any more right or wrong than the majority of the readerbase on this site, who are enthusiasts (not beginners). 'Enthusiasts' are better than many of the installers I have met over time, as they are actually enthusiastic about their hobby, rather than it being a 'job' to others. Not putting you in that category George, just raising a point.

Quote

I think this topic sorts out who really knows are cares anything about SQ

What ???

Seriously ... there's at least five threads today I have read where members are just not being helpful, but instead are attacking or insulting other members. When did these forums go to shit?

[APS]

Today


Anyway as far as the loudness thing goes I speak from experience because i have had a couple of customers who i tuned the sound system for to cut off at about 90 percent of the volume of the deck. I also made them aware by boosting bass and other stuff on the deck will make their system cut off (start to clip) a lot earlier and that if they want something adjusted they should come see me free of charge.

Now they chose not to take my advice and there was only a couple i might add because the others listen to what i say. They cranked their system to the cut off point and then wanted to see what LOUD would do by switching it on. One of them rang me and said "MY WHOLE CAR NEARLY FELL APPART". I told him good now switch it off and dont use it. A couple of days later another phone call. "MY SUB IS BUZZING AND MAKING A TERRIBLE NOISE CAN I BRING IT PAST FOR YOU TO LOOK AT" at 10pm at night mind you. Anyway i saw him the next day funnily enough the sub had fallen appart because of the clipped signal he sent the woofer while blowing his car appart and showing off to his neighbours.

The other one i just wont mention as it was a complete joke.

The only customers i have had that had a problem with their sound system after leaving my hands were ones which switched on LOUDNESS.

My point at 90 percent of the volume the LOUDNESS didnt switch off or fade out. I only do this with customers who mainly run amps of RCA outs. Any speakers running of the deck i normally tune the system to cut off at 70 percent volume cos the speaker outs will start to clip.

So although i can understand your point Marc, what i dont understand is how can you tune a sound system for SQ when the Loudness boosts frequencies at the low end and top end creating a more dynamic sound stage.

SQ is about achieving the flattest response possible at least when i was competing back in the old days it was.

So maybe my ways are outdated but like i said the example above basically proved to me that this function shouldnt be used.

I find that customers who need to use Loudness are the ones who go to the chain stores by a trillion watt max output amp for $200 and then wanna boom down the street and want their system to crank.

I know you are not putting me in the installer category but unlike other installers i run my own business and actually am a car audio enthusiast myself.

I am on this board to learn from others as well as join in debates like this because as car audio enthusiasts things always change we are not doctors that work on a body that never changes everyday.

So if you think im wrong then tell me why im wrong and in what way was i attacking him. See his post under my first answer.

WTF?? whats wrong with the loud button? its increases the bass... i have no idea what the hell you are talking about...
If you wish use the loud button but tune the amp with it off

Instead of swearing he could have asked simply WHATS WRONG WITH IT if he didnt like my answer, instead of telling me i have no idea what im talking about.


George

Edited by STREETSOUNDZ, 04 January 2006 - 10:06 AM.

[Marc ♫]

STREETSOUNDZ, on Jan 4 2006, 11:05 AM, said:

So although i can understand your point Marc, what i dont understand is how can you tune a sound system for SQ when the Loudness boosts frequencies at the low end and top end creating a more dynamic sound stage.

Define SQ. I enjoy my music loud and clear, but not necessarily an accurate reproduction of the engineer's mix. Tuning for SQ competition, and tuning for my daily driving, both of which are 'SQ' based are two different things.

That being said, yes while it does boost highs and lows, it's not doing that by the time I get to just above listening level (which I said in my first post). So ... at listening level I have a true signal tuned to my preference, but at lower levels its boosted which still sounds fantastic as it needs this to overcome road noise etc.

[APS]

Yeah but the thing is if your amplifiers are adequate and you have good quality splits and maybe rears whats the need for LOUDNESS?

Road noise is overcome by the subwoofers ability to mask this problem.

As i said in my previous post. Please turn up the volume on a Pioneer headunit up, say for arguments sake a DEH P8650MP to 100 percent of its volume if you want, on a system tuned to cut off at this stage and tell me whether the loudness does nothing.

Come on who are we kidding here.

Which SQ head units and i mean headunits which are classed as pure SQ have the LOUDNESS feature?

I can make a system sound awesome without using LOUDNESS so in your previous post stating that some installers just get paid for what they do and they dont know much is in a way true but dont dismiss industry professionals to be nowhere near as good as enthusiasts.

Here in Adelaide some businesses will let a customer drive away without even turning a dial on amp or headunit they leave it up to the customer to tune their systems.

Well i dont, I make sure every system is tuned before it leaves my workshop and i make sure i spend at least 15 minutes to a half an hour adjusting the system after i have tuned it, to the customers taste. Every customer that leaves me gets a warning not to switch loudness on because it does in fact boost frequencies even though the volume level is quite high.

Now if you choose to use this feature thats up to you. I simply speak from experience because i can see the damage it has done to a couple of systems.

The original post person to this thread can make up his mind which advice they wanna take.

I dont wanna argue its pointless.


George

Edited by STREETSOUNDZ, 04 January 2006 - 05:11 PM.

[APS]

I give up.

Whats the point knocking my head against a brick wall when everyone is an expert.

I am not missing the point why do i need the LOUDNESS to boost frequencies when i can just gain up the amp for the sub to be louder and overpower the rest slightly.

[Marc ♫]

Not everyone is an expert. You just have to realise that what you say because you are an 'expert' is not necessarily correct. Everyone is entitled to another view.

I'm not going to shoot you down because I am not saying you are wrong, and you aren't. My point is, remember to listen to what others have to say also.

I'm also an expert with a hell of a lot of experience and I don't agree. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong in this case. We each have a differing opinion.

[GTR]

Marc, on Jan 4 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

Not everyone is an expert. You just have to realise that what you say because you are an 'expert' is not necessarily correct. Everyone is entitled to another view.

I'm not going to shoot you down because I am not saying you are wrong, and you aren't. My point is, remember to listen to what others have to say also.

I'm also an expert with a hell of a lot of experience and I don't agree. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong in this case. We each have a differing opinion.

Marc you think your some mad c***.

stfu, stop being cocky, and get over yourself.

You think cos your admin you can be a mad c***?

You can stick your experience and expertise, and caraudioaustralia.com up your bum.

[Marc ♫]

LOL - how I am some "mad c***" and the fact that I am "admin" came into this I have no idea. My guess is you're a pathetic loser hiding behind a computer screen.

I didn't know having an opinion, and "playing on words" used by someone else in this post makes me those things. There you go hey.

It was you (under your other username) that was asking whether its ok to bridge your amp to run 6x9's I guess you found out everything you needed to know hey?

Enjoy your time online ... elsewhere

Edited by Marc, 05 January 2006 - 12:18 PM.

[pingpong]

Marc, on Jan 5 2006, 02:14 AM, said:

It was you (under your other username) that was asking whether its ok to bridge your amp to run 6x9's I guess you found out everything you needed to know hey?

[OT]
Hehe, you think if someone was going to use a troll username, they'd at least switch ips or use an ip mask. Who was the original user though
[/OT]

But I agree with Marc in that you tune your system to HOW YOU LISTEN TO IT not to how some guy on an internet forum tells you. If you are to be using with LOUD on, just factor that in when setting gains etc, and there isn't a problem!

[abmolech]

Not wishing to stick my oar particularly.

This might be explained by understanding how the human ear attenuates certain frequencies at different sound pressure levels.

quote.

Equal-loudness contours were first measured by Fletcher and Munson using headphones (1933). In their study, listeners were presented with pure tones at various frequencies and over 10 dB increments in stimulus intensity. For each frequency and intensity, the listener was also presented with a reference tone at 1000 Hz. The reference tone was adjusted until it was perceived to be of the same loudness as the test tone. Loudness, being a psychological quantity, is difficult to measure, so Fletcher and Munson averaged their results over many test subjects to derive reasonable averages.

There have been a few updates on this original data, but they were surprisingly close.

The normal curve for this is known as "c" weighted.
At higher sound pressure levels (dB) it starts to flatten off considerably.

I am an unaware of any car audio systems that use the "c" weighting for there volume levels.

Hope this helps.  abmolech_loudnesscontrol_ts_2_lg.jpg   52.83K   29 downloads

Edited by abmolech, 05 January 2006 - 01:21 PM.