108 replies to this topic

[stazed]

Agree with Juls about testing. When I initially swapped my Eton Pro's for Rainbow's, I couldn't hear a difference at first, just 15 minutes apart. After many hours of listening about all I could tell was that the Rainbow's went louder. After many weeks and months, I know for sure that the Rainbow's are a completely different speaker to the Eton's, and there are small little things that I can now use to differentiate the two, regarding familiar tracks at specific points at various volumes.

But back to back, it all seems a bit difficult.

[@nThOnY]

Juls, on Apr 22 2006, 04:15 PM, said:

if you can stay away from 4 channels and bridging them to get the power.
many of the specs written down in the spec sheet mean virtually nothing once you bridge the amp.
the only thing that improves when you bridge is the power. almost every other great aspect of the amp gets much worse. As we have already discussed here, power really only makes up half the picture.

Look for good 2 channels 50-75w rms per channel in that price range.
you'll be pleasantly rewarded.

Ummm. I don't see why anyone should stay away from a 4 ch amp, there are just so many ways you can choose from a 4ch to run a system.

I have owned the JL300/4 and 500/1 years ago with my Dyns and have run them in stereo (passive), bridged mono (passive and 150w x2) as well as active. I have also used the 300/4 to drive my whole system (75x2 for splits, 150x1 for sub).

From personal experience, Dyns love power and when I drove my mine with 75 x 2, its simply not enough and lack the control when I turn up the volume. Once I bridge them (with the extra headroom), the speaker defnitely sound more lively, dynamic and fast, the mid-bass pounding with more control. Twice the power on paper but it makes a big difference.

You may argue in a mono vs stereo pov, I have gone through a lot of experiements and auditions and find feeding Dyns with ample power the best compromise. But that is just me.

[Crusader]

I agree with Jul’s comments on back to back comparisons. I have compared guitars and pickups the most so this may be a little different but this is my experience -

I play one guitar and then another, I can hear a difference straight away but I can’t tell WHAT the difference is. I keep swapping guitars trying to figure it out, also trying to decide which one I like the most but I just lose the ability to tell the difference.

If I have both guitars at home and play them every day, just familiarizing myself with each one’s tonal qualities over a couple of weeks I finally get an answer. The difference “sinks in” and one day it just hits me like a ton of bricks that ‘guitar A’ sounds like “this” and ‘guitar B’ sounds like “that”

Another way of looking at it is if you have a Fender and a Gibson and play them to someone who knows nothing about music you will 99% of the time get the response “I dunno, I can’t tell the difference” But once you explain the difference to them and play them again they ‘light-up’ and say “Oh yeah I can tell the difference now”

So I agree that you can’t tell the difference with just a quick listen although I think the difference between amps is more subtle than guitars because once you’ve got used to the sound of a particular guitar you don’t lose it.

I used to go see this band in Perth and the guitarist played a Kramer (I think) One night I lent him my guitar. I was playing pool out the back and when the band started tuning-up I said to my mates “I love the sound of that guitar” I rushed into the main bar to see who it was, and of course I liked the sound of it. He was playing my Les Paul!

That’s my two bob’s worth

HooDs, on Apr 21 2006, 05:27 PM, said:

If that doesnt suit you, drop your battery terminal nuts down your engine bay.

WTF?
I don't know what he's talking about but it makes me laugh!


Doug

[abmolech]

Richard Clark allows you to have as long as you like, any music you wish...

Should be easy money..

Edited by abmolech, 22 April 2006 - 09:54 PM.

[roughcactus]

WhiteMY06, on Apr 22 2006, 08:48 AM, said:

And could you suggest anywhere that might stock these?

Speaking of Rockford amps, was looking at the new monoblock today, almost 1kw on the birthsheet! Not bad for a 500w rated amp!

phone a-z trading on 03 9761 1338 for a dealer near you

I was checking that amp out last night...pretty damn impressive considering the cost of it

Edited by roughcactus, 22 April 2006 - 11:22 PM.

[SomeFReaK]

Doug, on Apr 22 2006, 08:30 PM, said:

Quote

If that doesnt suit you, drop your battery terminal nuts down your engine bay.

WTF?
I don't know what he's talking about but it makes me laugh!
Doug

Hahahaha, just something that happened to me when i was changing my battery terminals over, took me aages to find it too.

[HooDs]

hahaha wat a great night that was

"Wouldn't it be funny if you dropped those nuts down the engine bay"
"Sure would be..."

*ding ding ding*

"sh*t"

[Pulse-R]

It's only when they don't hit the ground you need to worry

[HooDs]

They didnt

[Juls]

abmolech, on Apr 22 2006, 07:53 PM, said:

Richard Clark allows you to have as long as you like, any music you wish...

Should be easy money..

I still don't believe that testing to see if people can blindfolded tell which amp is which,
having only had less than a days experience with it, proves there is no difference in Amps.
thats a crazy thing to suggest.

If you let that same person have the amp for 2 months,
then swapped that amp over with another one, and asked them to tell the difference,
the difference would be day and night..

Juls

[abmolech]

Quote

If you let that same person have the amp for 2 months,
then swapped that amp over with another one, and asked them to tell the difference,
the difference would be day and night..

Juls

You are allowed to do this.

Bring your amp, your speakers etc along for the test.

As you say should be night and day, yet no-one has achieved this "easy" feat.

The facts are

Amplifiers have surpassed our ability to measure them by the human ear alone.

The same as you cannot sense time better than a watch.

Even the cheapest functioning watch can give acceptable time performance.

Same with an amplifier if it is operated within its limitations.

This is the "amp" test.

The problem is most people have not realised it.

If you said you could tell time better than a watch, most people would laugh you off this forum.

The fact is you cannot measure the difference between amps by the human ear alone.

[Juls]

abmolech, on Apr 24 2006, 02:20 PM, said:

1. Bring your amp, your speakers etc along for the test.

2. The fact is you cannot measure the difference between amps by the human ear alone.

1. The fact that your "bringing" anything makes it much harder immediatly.

2. your wrong you certainly can.
ask your local car stereo specialist to show you.

Juls

[HBD]

Surely the only way to test this is to do a side by side test in the same car, with the same speakers, merely swapping over amps. Perhaps someone with connections and gear (say one of the disi's or reps) could arrange this?

Cheers, Blake

[abmolech]

Quote

1. The fact that your "bringing" anything makes it much harder immediately.

2. your wrong you certainly can.
ask your local car stereo specialist to show you.

Juls

It appears no amount of evidence, type of test etc will allow you to understand, that we have mapped the human ear, know its limitations as far as measurement are concerned.

When amplifiers measure within these limits (and they do If the gains are set even and equalising etc bypassed)

the human ear is unable to tell the difference.

There are instruments that can tell amplifiers apart under these conditions with ease, the human ear is not one of them.

This is the idea of the test, to get people to understand their limits.

Some people cannot accept that heavy objects don't fall faster in a positive gravity, no matter what the tests etc.

It is not the tests fault...

There is no way at this present time for you to overcome the humans mental limitation of understanding that our senses can be wrong.

This is sciences greatest challenge.

Both digital and analogue gauges can give accurate readings, our problem is parallax error.
On an analogue gauge this can give false readings, our digital readout does not suffer from this. (it has others though)

The digital gauge was created to help over come our limitation...

[stazed]

abmolech, on Apr 24 2006, 06:40 PM, said:

It appears no amount of evidence, type of test etc will allow you to understand, that we have mapped the human ear, know its limitations as far as measurement are concerned.

When amplifiers measure within these limits (and they do If the gains are set even and equalising etc bypassed)

the human ear is unable to tell the difference.

There are instruments that can tell amplifiers apart under these conditions with ease, the human ear is not one of them.

This is the idea of the test, to get people to understand their limits.

Some people cannot accept that heavy objects don't fall faster in a positive gravity, no matter what the tests etc.

It is not the tests fault...

There is no way at this present time for you to overcome the humans mental limitation of understanding that our senses can be wrong.

This is sciences greatest challenge.

Both digital and analogue gauges can give accurate readings, our problem is parallax error.
On an analogue gauge this can give false readings, our digital readout does not suffer from this. (it has others though)

The digital gauge was created to help over come our limitation...

Don't overgeneralise.

The human ear certainly can hear differences between amplifiers whilst playing test tones or other similar material.
Whilst music is playing, however, there is too much information for the brain to be able to process such small details.