22 replies to this topic

[Terebro]

Hey all,

I have nearly completed my install that I started several months ago, difference being I have changed direction a fair bit from a budget install to a more SQ focused one

I have a Falcon ute, and I built a twin 12" sealed sub enclosure that fits behind the seats comfortably, but the subs literally sit less than 6 inches away from the backrest of each seat. I have two Rockford P212S4 subs in there that have a 200wRMS and sound OK, but not great. I chose these because they were cheap and only needed 0.85 cu^ft sealed, so I built my enclosure exactly to that volume.

Now I have installed:
Eclipse CD7000
Phoenix Gold X6.5 splits
Alpine PDX 1000.1
Alpine PDX 150.4
Doors getting sound deadened this weekend.

As I'm running it active Im still a fair way off from tuning it how I want it (still learning).
I'm still a bit unsure how to finish it off, so Im asking for some advice:

The subs are running off a monoblock. As I'm running it active, should I replace the monoblock with another 150.4 and bridge it to 2x300w so I can time align my subs?
At the moment the base is there, but mostly just behind my back/head. Will time aligning each sub improve the delivery of bass?


When I bought my subs I was going the path of 'budget'. Now I have much better quality components and I'm thinking are my subs letting down the rest of my system? The PDX has a birthsheet of 1168w (at 2ohm OR 4ohm, not bad for a 1000w rating) but I think that is a huge waste when my RF's are only rated at 200w RMS.
As I only have a 0.85cu^ft enclosure that will allow a mounting depth no larger than 7" I'm somewhat limited to my choice if I do upgrade my subs.
But what are peoples thoughts?

I was thinking twin IDQ12's

Thanks

[Juls]

There is a few more things you can do that I didn't mention in our PM's.

Try running your front stage high passed at 50, 63 or 80hz @ 6db, to let some bass play up front,
if your doors are not sealed SEAL THEM!!. and Deaden the Hell out of them, at least 1 square metre per door.

With your subs run them at a 24db Low Pass.
Either 50, 63 or 80hz

I've had the most luck in my ute with 80hz 24db on sub, 80hz 6db on midbass.
but your subs and midbass are not only different brands/products/levels are also installed totally different.
so you may have more luck with other setups.

Also turn up the stereo loud, and try switching the Non Fader Preout Phase on the head unit.
I Also want you to try plugging them in 1 at a time, and checking which phase works best,
if it's a different phase with one and not the other, then reverse the polarity on the one that needs to be out of phase.

You can also try switching the phase on the amps for the Midbass. (not at the same time as doing the subs though, do it if switching sub phase doesn't help)

When I saw switch the phase, I mean only to test, if In or out of phase is louder/better sounding. if it's not then switch back. The idea is to find the correct phase settings for each speaker. And problem solve any stuffed up wiring.

These things will also help drive the soundstage forward and make the speakers in question sound much better.
while the bass freq's are omnidirectional, you can still hear one before the other in a scenario like a ute where the distances are close but significantly different, causing a mild echo effect in the bass, and time aligning can help that, but i don't think that will bring the sound stage "forward"

I was playing with my setup in the past few days, and have come across a setup that I can't even tell where the bass is coming from unless it is stereo. (in which case it's left or right, not front or back)

and yes I run the subs Stereo and Time Alignend... kinda cool when you get a Full left to right Bass sweep across the car!! (although songs with them are few and far between)

There is another solution.
Run a Single IDMAX instead of 2 subs. then your time alignment will work spot on.

Juls

Edited by Juls, 14 June 2006 - 06:23 PM.

[Terebro]

60 views.
2 votes.
1 reply.

Super.

[Reza]

We will run away as soon as we see long pages . The rate of reply less is proportional on how complex and long the thread is

[mikesmith]

sell up the subs and get 1 good single sub.

easier to mount, power and tune!!

[Terebro]

Well I really am in between two minds whether to go dual IDQ12's in the 0.85cu^ft or make a completely new IDMAX enclosure. Being behind the seat of a ute, the absolute maximum practical volume I can see myself having is 1.3Cu^ft.

The real problem is the mounting depth of an IDMAX.

Im still thinking about it, but I am starting to sway towards twin IDQ's.
Correct power delivery, enlcosure volume, simplicity and price.

[Juls]

Personally I'd go a Single 10" IDMAX mounted in a Box that runs behind the passenger seat, and fires into the side of the vehicle, you'll get much more path length, which in turn will give you deeper, louder and more satisfying bass response.

2 12"s behind the seats will give some awesome midbass.. but not much else unfortunatly.

Juls

[fuddbutter]

you can still TA with a monoblock, you dont need 2 channels for subs..

keep the mono and keep the subs or upgrade your subs and keep the mono.
simple.

[Juls]

fuddbutter, on Jun 16 2006, 01:08 PM, said:

you can still TA with a monoblock, you dont need 2 channels for subs..

keep the mono and keep the subs or upgrade your subs and keep the mono.
simple.

Imagine sitting in your seat, 1 sub is right behind your back.. I mean virtually on your back.

the other sub .. is behind the passenger seat, on the passengers back.

Now .. how do you time align the subwoofers separately.. with a mono block?
and if your going to time align them together.. which sub do you make the measurement from?
and um.. doesn't that just put you back to square 1?

Juls

[fuddbutter]

being that the freq that you are playing are non directional then you run them in Mono and TA them equal to the mid's (not each mid)

you dont want to TA each sub, you want to TA both of them and move the sound all the way forward.
if you TA just one then the passanger side will be getting the bass at the wrong time.

[Juls]

fuddbutter, on Jun 16 2006, 02:40 PM, said:

being that the freq that you are playing are non directional then you run them in Mono and TA them equal to the mid's (not each mid)

you dont want to TA each sub, you want to TA both of them and move the sound all the way forward.
if you TA just one then the passanger side will be getting the bass at the wrong time.

Bass might be not directional .. what the hell does that have to do with distance based delay???

there isn't much point in him time aligning, if he can only time align the midbass to the subs, instead of the midbass to the driver.

Juls

[fuddbutter]

subs are non directional therefor you dont need to TA them to each mid.

you TA it as if they were one sub..

ah dont worry, it's no use.

[Gonadman2]

Have you considered something like a DD1008 8" Isobarik enclosure? I found that my Jaycar 8" Isobarik sounded better than my 10" Alpine (that I just ran over) in my ute, as I was able to build a 'bigger' box because they were Isobarik. It didn't play loud but they are cheap subs. However I'm sure the DD 8" would be well and truely loud enough in a ute cabin. Also the configuration allowed me to face the sub into the middle of the cabin and then use phasing on the amp to get it sounding good. Although it probably could have been better if I understood the gear better at the time.

[Terebro]

Since I got my doors sound deadened last weekend, I even moreso need to improve my bass side of things. The difference a couple of square meters of Dynamat makes is amazing.

Ive been thinking and measuring alot, and Im thinking I will install twin IDMAX10's. Firing them into the side may be good for path length but I want to see them

Rather than fire them staight into the back of each seat, Im considering firing them in towards eachother but at a slight angle so they're more like firing into the front doors. This will give me a bit of path length, I'll be able to see them nicely and they'll fit behind each seat easier. Hopefully the angle will negate any cancellation affect caused by firing towards eachother (if any). They'll be at a distace of almost 2 feet from eachother.

The difficult part will be the twin enclosure construction, and finding two IDMAX10's locally !!

They'll be sealed with 0.9cu^ft volume as per recommendations.
This will hopefully give me noticeable improvement over my current twin RF P212S4 setup.

[Juls]

Terebro, on Jun 20 2006, 07:27 AM, said:

Since I got my doors sound deadened last weekend, I even moreso need to improve my bass side of things. The difference a couple of square meters of Dynamat makes is amazing.

Ive been thinking and measuring alot, and Im thinking I will install twin IDMAX10's. Firing them into the side may be good for path length but I want to see them

Rather than fire them staight into the back of each seat, Im considering firing them in towards eachother but at a slight angle so they're more like firing into the front doors. This will give me a bit of path length, I'll be able to see them nicely and they'll fit behind each seat easier. Hopefully the angle will negate any cancellation affect caused by firing towards eachother (if any). They'll be at a distace of almost 2 feet from eachother.

The difficult part will be the twin enclosure construction, and finding two IDMAX10's locally !!

They'll be sealed with 0.9cu^ft volume as per recommendations.
This will hopefully give me noticeable improvement over my current twin RF P212S4 setup.

I've got almost that exact setup with my twin Focal 11" subs man.
thats exactly what i did.. but after playing them for awhile, I turned them around and fired them into the walls.. .

MUCH BETTER!!

2 of my new amps are dead, so new install is still not finished,
would be good if you listend to my setup before going ahead.
looking at, 2-3 weeks delay before I can organise some more amps though

Juls