14 replies to this topic

[LordWorm]

Ok, simple question.

In general
is it better to have your tweeters up on your dash or a pillar, in an arc so they are equal distances from your ear as the woofers are

or mount the tweeter right next to the woofer.


Please explain why in your answer..

if putting the tweeter right next tot he woofer is the go, why then even bother with splits?

[HooDs]

There is no IDEAL location to have your tweeters.

Some will argue the footwells others will argue dash. At times it's completely dependent on the vehicle.

For example, I run my tweets in the stock locations up on my dash and it images and stages beautifully with minimal TA.

Tweakd is an example of tweeters mounted down in the footwells and with a flat eq and no TA the sound is purely amazing along with its staging.

Experimentation is the key here because not all shapes and sizes of cars will accomodate a universal location for tweeters.

[LordWorm]

HooDs, on Jul 14 2006, 11:54 AM, said:

There is no IDEAL location to have your tweeters.

Some will argue the footwells others will argue dash. At times it's completely dependent on the vehicle.

For example, I run my tweets in the stock locations up on my dash and it images and stages beautifully with minimal TA.

Tweakd is an example of tweeters mounted down in the footwells and with a flat eq and no TA the sound is purely amazing along with its staging.

Experimentation is the key here because not all shapes and sizes of cars will accomodate a universal location for tweeters.

Ok - cool...but you do want them mounted on axis if at all possible yes?

and you wouldnt want the tweeters LITTERALLY beside the woofer - so close to beside that they might as well be coax, and are infact, mounted on the grills of the woofer itself? - then aimed at your thigh? (friends setup - reason for the question - put an argument to bed...)

[Woody]

LordWorm, on Jul 14 2006, 01:58 PM, said:

and you wouldnt want the tweeters LITTERALLY beside the woofer - so close to beside that they might as well be coax, and are infact, mounted on the grills of the woofer itself? - then aimed at your thigh? (friends setup - reason for the question - put an argument to bed...)

Sorry mate,

Come down to Northfield around lunchtime on saturday and i'll shoot that theory in the foot for you very quickly. Even though i've added tweeters up on my a-pillars now, my set-up still had great staging and imaging in its original form. (Aside from a slight dropoff at the sides. "The rainbow effect").

Come down and have a listen. Oh, im all Type-X so that may help you with some decisions as well....

Woody

[SlimLim]

i prefer tweets up high then in the kicks. The theory that it is closer to equal distance works well and it images better in the kicks, but i cant live with a lower soundstage. Plus my feet and passengers feet affects the sound too much for my liking when i'm driving.

[Woody]

Double post. my bad....

Woody

Edited by Woody, 14 July 2006 - 01:06 PM.

[LordWorm]

I'm not talking about having them in the kicks... i'm talking about having them essentially ON the woofer (essentially turning it into a coax).

Distance would be the same, if you draw an arc from the centre of the woofer to the dash or a pillar...

why is imaging better in the footwell?

[Woody]

LordWorm, on Jul 14 2006, 03:26 PM, said:

I'm not talking about having them in the kicks... i'm talking about having them essentially ON the woofer (essentially turning it into a coax).

These are the mids of the leading Pro Show car in QLD... he might beg do differ on your theory....

http://www.caraudioaustralia.com/forums/in...si&img=1288

Woody

[Luke352]

Ok so from what I believe yes a lot of people consider a coax style type setup is best thats why Boston speakers give you the ability to do this. But this doesnt work in every car or suit everyone's taste, I've always liked my tweeers up high.

[ProClass]

In a perfect world the tweeter should be inside the cone of the woofer. Coax speaker!
This resolves all kinds of issues with respect to phase and time.
Sadly, it is not always possible to achieve this in a car. There are all kinds of factors that alter where a tweeter sounds best in a car. IMO there is no "perfect" rule to follow.
To find the best spot, test and re-test until to get the best possible response and image. Its the only way to do it IM{humble}O.
On axis VS off-axis. Depends on the radiation pattern and response of the tweeter.
Cheers

[LexARSE]

There are a few theories here.

Firstly, the point of having the different speakers close togeather, is to avoid seperation issues between the mid and tweet. Meaning the different frequencies coming form the 2 or 3 speakers will sound like its coming from different places and sound well....speperated. The idea of this ideal speaker with all the sound coming from one point is going to eliminate seperation totally.

Secondly the theory of mounting speakers/tweeters, more so the higher frequncie speakers, in the kicks is to get the most equal path length between the left and right speakers. Take a tape measure, measure from the drivers side headrest, down to the drivers kick panel, and then do the same for passenger side. The 2 measurements wont be too different. Then measure from the drivers head rest to the a piller or dash top where u mount the tweeters on both sides, youll see the to measurments are quite different. Obviously the more equal the distances the better your car is going to image and stage.

The problem with having the speakers in the kicks is it can cause a low stage height. Alot of testing with tweeter position and axis can solve this, or the other option is a set of ambient tweets on the dash which are high passed very high 8-12k and are able to be controlled seperatly via fading or amp gains.

Thats how ive found best results in the past with the two sets of tweeters, but as has been mentioned, every car differs.

The best way to find out is get a nice long length of speaker cable for your tweeters, a couple of big globs of blu-tac and move them round your car till you find somewhere thats right for you.


Hope this all makes sence and helps

Edited by LexARSE, 14 July 2006 - 07:27 PM.

[mazda626]

what is the point of splits if it is best to mount the tweeters right neer the woofer.. therefore making a coaxial???

[ProClass]

We use "separated speakers" so we can mount the tweeter higher in the vehicle if needed. Its all about flexibility!
Having said that, some cars image fine with tweeters mounted low. The positioning of speakers in a car is paramount to SQ and image. Each car due to shape and size is different acoustically.
The suggestion that LexARSE makes about distance is true with respect to time but in a car I feel “point source” localization is due to SPL rather than image. I don’t mind sitting a little “stage right” while driving so long as my passenger hears them self sitting “stage left”.
LexARSE is right. A bit of speaker wire, a pack of blue tac, and have a play. You’ll find the right spot for your car easily enough.
Cheers

[MADTRAV]

SlimLim, on Jul 14 2006, 02:57 AM, said:

i prefer tweets up high then in the kicks. The theory that it is closer to equal distance works well and it images better in the kicks, but i cant live with a lower soundstage. Plus my feet and passengers feet affects the sound too much for my liking when i'm driving.

Luke352, on Jul 14 2006, 05:10 AM, said:

Ok so from what I believe yes a lot of people consider a coax style type setup is best thats why Boston speakers give you the ability to do this. But this doesnt work in every car or suit everyone's taste, I've always liked my tweeers up high.

Personally i like mine high too.

Working in the industry i always hear arguments like these, whether it be with experts, day to day customers, the i know to much customer and magazines, books etc. Through all this i can only determine that the best positioning depends on the speaker, the car, the ear and the requirements of the istallation. i personally like higher tweeters and with todays time alignment technology you can easily overcome these relative distance issues, then again i get customers who prefer their sound from behind them, or some cars with factory tweeter locations in less than ideal postions and the customer requires them here. What to do??? Do the best you can, if your worried about your own car, put blu tac on the tweeter and drive around for a few weeks with different positions and see what sounds best to you.