15 replies to this topic

[PHD]

i have a question about custom made crossover. if my 2 ways split is not enough midbass, would custom made crossover help to increase midbass or just make sound warm?

PHD

[trism]

im asuming that you have already sound deadned the doors?? that makes alot off dif to the midbass.......

only thing custom crossover would do is change the slopes, and the actual points...i dont see how it would fully work....what splits??

[PHD]

the slpit is from italy. i did full car sound deadening by pros. if i want to increase midbass, what should i do? is that mean custom made crossover cannot help me in this case?

[trism]

no, what is the brand of the speaker??i dont care where its made, what is the speaker??

are they amped???

what kind of amp??

[PHD]

RES is the brand. they are amped with 100w 2 channels.

Technical characteristics Symbol Value Unit

Range - 40-20k Hz
Slope - 12 dB/oct
x-over frequency Fc 5 kHz
Level control - - dB
Tweeter diameter Øtw 44 mm
Woofer diameter Øwf 165 mm
Power handling Pmax 100 W

[Ferry]

How do u describe by not enough midbass here?Like not punchy enough or what? U've deaden the doors (by pro) so I assume the installation was done by pro (or u've done everything correctly). Then it comes down to either the splits is hungry for power and need more power to sound its best or its the characteristic of the splits itself

Do u have a sub?If u do, it mite be the tuning as well, they dont blend in well atm

[@nThOnY]

I am sure you can increase mid bass with your custom passive. From what my installer told me, it is about the choice on components that is going to dictate the sound.

[Pulse-R]

If you have an EQ, try increase the 80 to 200Hz frequencies to get more midbass.

also the head unit and/or amplifier might be detracting from the sound. (this seems to be quite common for some brands of units due to internal filtering causing phase errors

sometimes also sub woofer time-alignment or phase will give the impression of poor midbass.

[Juls]

Are you doors sealed?

if not thats the first thing you need to do, see the tutorials section for deadening doors.

if it was professionally installed, 95% chance they did not seal up the service holes.

I've talked to at least 5 shops that had never even heard of doing it! LOL

The other thing is mounting,
if the speakers are on axis, this can decrease your midbass (firing at the top of the seats)
mounting them off axis (into the gearbox tunnel) can increase the midbass somewhat.

Alternatively, not enough power is being applied, and the tweeters may not be attenuated enough,
try attenuating your tweeters, and increasing the gain on the amp.

finally try EQing.

Juls

[~thematt~]

Ive found midbass seems to be slightly worse through the use of passives. Active tends to have a noticeably 'harder' punch. Changing the type of components used in the crossover though will give you the sound, and you can warm it up or 'sterile' it out to your content. This can be also achieved through an EQ.

Door prepping, as everyone else mentioned, would be my first step though.

[GABSTER]

PHD, on Oct 6 2006, 12:46 AM, said:

RES is the brand. they are amped with 100w 2 channels.

Technical characteristics Symbol Value Unit

Range - 40-20k Hz
Slope - 12 dB/oct
x-over frequency Fc 5 kHz
Level control - - dB
Tweeter diameter Øtw 44 mm
Woofer diameter Øwf 165 mm
Power handling Pmax 100 W

Hi PHD,

Two thoughts that may help and would cost you nothing to try.

1) You may be suffering from cancellation at the crossover point from the drivers being out of phase due to the install location and hence their relative time allignment. If this is the cause of your problem you can fix it by simply reversing the polarity of the tweeter. This will cost you nothing to try but may help restore your midbass

2) The 5 Khz xover point is fairly high for a 6.5" woofer. Most 6.5"s don't actually operate that high especially when listening to them off axis, as in a car. I suspect your Woofer may be xrossed over too high and when you are listening to it off axis you are detecting the lack of midbass. If your head unit has active x-over try lowering the cross over point to around 2.5 KHz to 3 Khz - assuming the tweeter can operate this low. If you can't operate the system actively then this is not an option.

If the above two fail, use some sort of an equaliser to boost your midbass. Trying to design a passive xover is the last option to take because it is quite involved and can end up costing you a lot of money with no guarantees the problem will be solved at the end of it all.

Good Luck..

[PHD]

GABSTER, on Oct 6 2006, 12:41 PM, said:

Hi PHD,

Two thoughts that may help and would cost you nothing to try.

1) You may be suffering from cancellation at the crossover point from the drivers being out of phase due to the install location and hence their relative time allignment. If this is the cause of your problem you can fix it by simply reversing the polarity of the tweeter. This will cost you nothing to try but may help restore your midbass

2) The 5 Khz xover point is fairly high for a 6.5" woofer. Most 6.5"s don't actually operate that high especially when listening to them off axis, as in a car. I suspect your Woofer may be xrossed over too high and when you are listening to it off axis you are detecting the lack of midbass. If your head unit has active x-over try lowering the cross over point to around 2.5 KHz to 3 Khz - assuming the tweeter can operate this low. If you can't operate the system actively then this is not an option.

If the above two fail, use some sort of an equaliser to boost your midbass. Trying to design a passive xover is the last option to take because it is quite involved and can end up costing you a lot of money with no guarantees the problem will be solved at the end of it all.

Good Luck..

if my amp has crossover, is it ok that i take the mid bass speaker cable to amp terminal directly(no passive crossover involve in mid driver? can it become active crossover? do i need to use lo-pass, full range or hi pass in the case?

PHD

[GABSTER]

PHD, on Oct 7 2006, 02:08 AM, said:

if my amp has crossover, is it ok that i take the mid bass speaker cable to amp terminal directly(no passive crossover involve in mid driver? can it become active crossover? do i need to use lo-pass, full range or hi pass in the case?

PHD

OK, if you choose to run an active set up you will need a separate amp channel to run each driver (ie each woofer and each tweeter - ie you will need a 4 channel amp).

It is possible to run an active set up using just the built in xovers in the amp but head unit xovers usually offer much more flexibility.

As far as your mid/woofer, yes you can connect it directly to the amp output when you run it active - in this case you will need to set the amp channel feeding your mid woofer to LOW PASS.

If you do this you can't run the tweeters of that same channel - you will need to run the tweeters of a separate amp channel. You can run these actively by setting the amp xover to HIGH PASS or alternatively you can run the tweeters using their Passive Xover connected to a separate Amp channel set to FULL RANGE.

IF you are confident and depending on your experience level, there is no reason why you can't experiment and run both active and passive xovers at the same time for the same driver. All the xover is doing is "filtering out" the frequencies you don't want - whether you do so using a passive or an active xover it does not matter.

You can in fact run your mid woofer through its passive xover and at the same time set the amp channel feeding your mid woofer to LOW PASS. In this case you will be "filtering" the signal going to your mid woofer twice as much by combining the passive and the active filters together.

Which will sound better? There is no way of telling until you experiment and find that optimum setting (passive or active or both) that best matches your speakers to each other and to the car acoustics.

The beauty of an active system is that you can easily change xover points for each driver and listen to the effect. You can't do this with a passive xover which is set to just one frequency and slope.

Whatever you do, be very careful not to fry your tweeter by crossing it too low (avoid crossing the tweeter below 3 Khz )

PHD, the above can be too much tinkering unless you know what you are doing. The simplest way to get more midbass is probably to use an equaliser.

Good Luck

[PHD]

GABSTER, on Oct 8 2006, 12:27 AM, said:

PHD, the above can be too much tinkering unless you know what you are doing. The simplest way to get more midbass is probably to use an equaliser.

i had phoneix gold 30 bands EQ. i have tried so many time and still cannot increase the midbass. what should i do?(whhich freq do you suggest to start tuning in 30bands EQ)

PHD

[GABSTER]

PHD, on Oct 8 2006, 10:39 AM, said:

i had phoneix gold 30 bands EQ. i have tried so many time and still cannot increase the midbass. what should i do?(whhich freq do you suggest to start tuning in 30bands EQ)

PHD

Hi PHD, Sorry for the late response - I was away on holidays for a few days.

Something dosn't sound right if you tried all of this and still can't get the sound you want.

Your speakers may be "cancelling out" at the crossover point rather than "adding up". This may explain what you are hearing - if it is then please try to reverse the connection on the tweeters (ie + to - instead of + to +) and see if this sounds better.

As far as what frequencies to play with on the equaliser - I would try each one separately until you find the freq that gives you the sound you are after. Avoid changing all the frequencies at once or else you won't be able to tell what is happening.

Unfortunately PHD, there are no easy answers with this - it is a matter of trial and error.

Good luck friend..