29 replies to this topic

[mazda626]

hello

ive been reading aorund and it seems that when u tlak abotu sq u always mention staging, how do i knwo if i have good staging in my car..

i ask simply because im soon to be takign delivery of a boston pro 12.5lf and ive heard they have good sq charecteristics, so i thought why not have a crak aat caasq next year,

so now im tryign to get into it and trying to understand hwo to get my car sq comp worthy... any tips for starters??

[Falc]

when you listen to a band (not pop music but and actual skilled band) does it sound like they are playing on a "stage" in front of you?
Thats what it should sound like. With good imaging you should be able to tell where each band member is on that stage

[KickerCat]

First tip? Spell check your post.... Go some meets, and listen to existing competitors cars to get an idea of what their systems sound like. You could think your system is unreal, but the judges listen for certain things, and without knowing what to tune for, you'll have a hard time tuning the system to perform well. Enter comps - judges feedback is important - they'll be able to tell you what may need changing. Also, listen to the Judging CD, and use it for tuning your system.

[the_iano]

Best way to experience staging is to go to a live event. I'm not talking about a pub rock gig, try a live jazz venue, or orchestra etc. I know up here in QLD theres plenty of events on at places like QPAC and City Hall. Going to one of these is probably the single most important thing you can do to train your ears, as you can see the stage layout in front of you - and can pinpoint exactly where each instrument is.

This is the sound we're gunning for in CAASQ. Imagine your dashboard as a 3 dimensional stage. Vocalist front left centre, guitar behind him/her, drums, keys, bass etc etc. The more we can identify each individual instrument and how much space and ambience there is within the mix, the better you will score. This trait is known as sound staging, and you'll hear judges refer to it often.

Consequently, a poorly tuned system should sound loose, muddy, and compressed. Instruments arent well placed and fall over the top of each other, and you lose that 3 dimensional image.

Hope this has helped. The judging discs we use are extremely high end reference recordings designed to bring the best out of systems worth many thousands of dollars. By all means pickup a copy and use it as a benchmark for tuning, but there are also plenty of well recorded CDs out there. The music & recording threads on CAA are full of examples.

[KickerCat]

Hey ikerr, how would you describe 'compressed'? Is that referring to the staging not being 3 dimensional?

[Juls]

There are a number of things that can effect your soundstage.

firstly to clarify what a stage is.

basically, your staging is how wide and the placement of your soundstage, Like is it on top of the dash, and far forward like almost on the bonnet? or is it way down low around your feet, and coming out of the gearbox?

in terms of imaging, your staging and imaging have to work together, imaging refers to the placement of objects within the sound stage, such as the singing singing in the centre of your soundstage, and possibly instruments coming from different places across the soundstage from left to right, and also depth wise within the soundstage.

it's not tremendously difficult to achieve a good soundstage, and imaging but a few things should be considered.

1. placement of speakers.
Try to place your speakers as far away and as high as possible, Many people prefer kickpanel locations because they are "far" away from the listening position, but often means the requirement of "ambient" tweeters playing 10khz upwards, to help bring the soundstage up ontop of the dash.

alternatively, placements of the tweeters and sometimes midranges in the a pillars above the dash, are also popular, but generally have not quite as wide a soundstage to offer, but still plenty respectable.

Personally I prefer my Midrange midheight in the door, I prefer this position as it means I can use Cone style midranges, which can play a wider range, and then using the A pillar mounted tweeter works well in my vehicle (in some cars this just doesn't work) Midbass positions vary from Midway up the door, to the bottom of the door to the kick panels, kick panel positions can help widen the soundstage, but if you place a midrange in the kick panels, then usually you'll need to put the tweeter there too, or suffer from separation issues.

Each car is different, you will need to try different arrangements in your car.

2. Time Alignment,
Time alignment can dramatically effect the positioning and placement of your stereo image, as well as helping localize your staging. However, proper use of time alignment is sometimes tricky.

3. X/overs
The crossover points you choose will make a difference depending on locations of speakers,
you can shift your soundstage around slightly, by making adjustments to crossover slopes and points.

4. Equalisation,
your Staging width and Imaging locations can be modified with the EQ, certain frequencys will be more directional that others, where some will ambiently localize and widen or narrow your stage, others will specifically localize and define your stereo imaging.

Juls

[mazda626]

hmmm do u rekon i could go well in sq events with the sytem in my sig, cept the sub will be a boston pro... not clarions

[Juls]

mazda626, on Dec 18 2006, 06:53 PM, said:

hmmm do u rekon i could go well in sq events with the sytem in my sig, cept the sub will be a boston pro... not clarions

I don't see any reason not to have a go,
your head unit might be letting you down in the adjustments dept,
but if you don't know how to use the adjustments, then a higher end deck probably won't help.

Juls

[~thematt~]

mazda626, on Dec 18 2006, 06:53 PM, said:

hmmm do u rekon i could go well in sq events with the sytem in my sig, cept the sub will be a boston pro... not clarions

Mate, Ive heard cars that $hite all over mine with factory decks. I dont know about you, but I want to enter SQ comps not to win, but to learn more about my system, and what I can do to improve it. Your equipment doesnt mean everything.

[mazda626]

yeh thats also a factor, i jsut dont want to be turning up to an event that i ahd to drive like 4 hours for to be laughed at lol

[KickerCat]

I dunno what its like in NSW, but you wouldn't get laughed at in melbourne. We'd just give you pointers on how to tune it better next time. Who really gives an ass if you dont have the latest stuff? Alan and I could attest to how little you DONT need to do well....

[Sierra]

KickerCat, on Dec 18 2006, 10:54 PM, said:

Alan and I could attest to how little you DONT need to do well....

Damn straight KC

My factory front speakers did well this year .... so don't be scared to compete with what you have, no one will laugh at you

[the_iano]

KickerCat, on Dec 18 2006, 02:55 AM, said:

Hey ikerr, how would you describe 'compressed'? Is that referring to the staging not being 3 dimensional?

- no air around each instrument
- music sounds like its all meshed together in one big clump
- this in turn affects imaging and staging, ie there is none
- and yes you are right, the stage appears more 2D

[mazda626]

hmm well i spsoe ill give it a crack then, once i get everything sorted... is there a certain type of extinguisher i should be lookign for... ive searched and there supposedly like 25 buks is this reasonable??

now to sort out my amp problems ...

oh yeh... where are sq events in nsw usually held? and is there any act events?

[KickerCat]

check the events section under CAASQ, should tell you when the next nsw event is. I got my extnguisher from bunnings for 30 bucks - try to go for a powder/foam one, not just water