39 replies to this topic

[abmolech]

Quote

i agree re: sound producers. its just criminal what they do to some music. im finding that if a great bit of music is recorded poorly, i cant enjoy it anymore. like they say, rubbish in, rubbish out

What makes me chuckle is statements such as yours, applied to sound reproduction (Only as good as the weakest link etc). Do they grasp 8 track recording is eight tracks of MONOPHONIC, mashed into "stereo recording"
The peddle the treadmill of stereo hoping the right combination of gear will produce "sonic Nirvana", and rave about this cable or power amplifier or other forum "boner of the month". When their recording isn't even stereo.

[~thematt~]

Can any of these methods be performed in real-time, using a stereo recorded CD??

If I were to have a Carputer, can I recreate ambisonics using programs like Audiomulch running real-time processing in the background whilst playing standard CD's??

Whilst the playback is somewhat eery at first on my home computer, I really dont want to continue click SoundIn and Soundout play and pause just to hear my music in Ambisonics in the car. It needs to be idiot proof to a degree.....

Am I missing something here?

[SCorpion]

abmolech, on Oct 14 2007, 05:39 PM, said:

What makes me chuckle is statements such as yours, applied to sound reproduction (Only as good as the weakest link etc). Do they grasp 8 track recording is eight tracks of MONOPHONIC, mashed into "stereo recording"
The peddle the treadmill of stereo hoping the right combination of gear will produce "sonic Nirvana", and rave about this cable or power amplifier or other forum "boner of the month". When their recording isn't even stereo.

yes, i do think that we sometimes place to much emphasis in the wrong area. i guess they are like me and only do that since they dont know better

~thematt~, on Oct 14 2007, 06:15 PM, said:

Can any of these methods be performed in real-time, using a stereo recorded CD??

If I were to have a Carputer, can I recreate ambisonics using programs like Audiomulch running real-time processing in the background whilst playing standard CD's??

Whilst the playback is somewhat eery at first on my home computer, I really dont want to continue click SoundIn and Soundout play and pause just to hear my music in Ambisonics in the car. It needs to be idiot proof to a degree.....

Am I missing something here?

i haven't fiddled around with it long enough, but the program itself is designed as a re-mixer, so a sound engineer could come along and change some particular aspect. how do they do it with a CarPC i dont know. its not an elegant solution, but to re-record a cd i would rip the cd to the HDD, join all the songs into one big song, re-mix it then split them up into their idividual songs.

[Iceman_jkh]

CONSOLE (www.console.jp) is what I'm using (and have been for a while). It passes an audio stream through a user definable route of VST plugins and then outputs the results on the soundcard hardware outputs.

This is what I use to achieve 3 way (although it could be more if I wanted) 51-band (linear phase) graphic EQ, time alignment, phase inversion and gain adjustment. You just need the right VST plugins. Search the net and KVR forums .

It might help

Edited by Iceman_jkh, 14 October 2007 - 08:11 PM.

[Iceman_jkh]

Bear in mind, that with high processing loads (such as with ambiosonic/convolution/phase warp reversal), you need to enable a larger number of samples than normal for the PC to process at a time. This will allow you to perform realtime processing of the audio, but will (almost certainly) introduce a lag/delay time to your audio stream. This can be a problem if you chose to watch DVDs/movies and are not able to delay the video frames the suitable amount to coincide with the processed audio. Luckily some programs can perform this delay. This is however a warning, as not every program (if you are thinking about setting up a carpc) can have its visuals delayed. EG: Winamp visualisations.

Edited by Iceman_jkh, 14 October 2007 - 08:17 PM.

[gooki]

Hey Dean.

Thanks for the links. I knew there was a reason I kept my 5 morel soundspot speakers - they'll make testing this out in-car super easy.

Now say I want good staging for both driver and passenger is it ok to set up one ambiophonic array (for use of a better word) per person, or should I just have a central array, or is it a try and see type thing.

Also do you have any other links/directions for other methonds to try, as per above I've got 5x morel soundspots (all identical. all in own pods, all play down to 160htz) and am keen to try anything.


Cheers.

Dave.

PS can one presume this is similar to the Niro One system by Niro Nakamichi?

Edited by gooki, 17 October 2007 - 01:10 PM.

[abmolech]

Good to hear from you Dave.
This would be car specific. There is no real reason to have one setup per person, unless loudness would be a concern.
Ambiphonics has a VERY wide sweet spot, not as good as monophonic, but competitive within reasonable constraints. I recommend a single centre setup, assuming the right vehicle.
Those speakers should make ideal testers in a car. Do us a favour and compare them using them a stereo as well.
OK, unfair stereo has no chance.

But what you might try is quadraphonics. In theory this should provide better service than ambiphonics, remember to delay it by around 0.2 milliseconds.

Quote

PS can one presume this is similar to the Niro One system by Niro Nakamichi?

Nope.

[SCorpion]

gooki, on Oct 17 2007, 01:08 PM, said:

Hey Dean.

Thanks for the links. I knew there was a reason I kept my 5 morel soundspot speakers - they'll make testing this out in-car super easy.

Now say I want good staging for both driver and passenger is it ok to set up one ambiophonic array (for use of a better word) per person, or should I just have a central array, or is it a try and see type thing.

Also do you have any other links/directions for other methonds to try, as per above I've got 5x morel soundspots (all identical. all in own pods, all play down to 160htz) and am keen to try anything.
Cheers.

Dave.

PS can one presume this is similar to the Niro One system by Niro Nakamichi?

car specific. for the ultimate experience u have to have it dead centre. being off centre by only 2 or 3 degrees will be difficult for anyone to tell the difference IMO, but it definitly stages well within the arc made between the two drivers. problem is, whether or not u sit within that arc or not is going to be dependent on the car. for the older cars with a shallow dash, they may be able to sneak it in by 3-4 degrees at most (if the angle between the drivers is 30 degress, ie the driver's side only has 15 degrees of room to move), for the newer cars such as a swift i doubt this will work. the swift has such a massively deep dash and i think from memory this is due to the windscreen being laid back so far. vans again, because they sit so far forward (no sloping windscreen moves the driver forward) probably have as much success as those cars with a deep dash.

so after that huge paragraph, experiment.

[Matt VIP]

just having another quick read over the stuff here and elsewhere on the internet...

big thanks abmo for starting this up and getting us both thinking and talking about better ways to create audio illusions in the car

in terms of car setup, which is where I'm getting bogged down, maybe a good way to test things would be to grab some gaffertape, some powered PC speakers and a laptop running audiomulch plus plugins, and start moving the speakers around the dash etc to work out how good an image can be attained from what positions. then that should give a decent idea ab out whether or not this is achievable by simply having a centre ambiophonic array, or if more speakers are required...

?

[Pulse-R]

spot on Matt.

also read some of Angelo Farinas work in setting up stereo 4-channel systems to produce correct imaging for both front seat passengers - using crosstalk and measured impulse responses to 'de-convolve' the car (and its acoustics) out of the sound.