30 replies to this topic

[Marc ♫]

From the article: http://www.mobileele...oneer_appradio/

The race is on with manufacturer's all trying to find that seamless integration between our smart phones / devices and the vehicle's entertainment system. Perhaps Pioneer have found the answer or at least move us one step closer with the AppRadio™. According to Pioneer, AppRadio is the first in-vehicle product designed to utilise the the processing power, storage capacity, network connectivity and apps of the iPhone and iPod touch as the primary source for its information and entertainment capabilities ...

[Sicarius123]

This could easily sway me into buying an iPhone 5, but not with an Australian price $400 more than American while our dollar is worth more.

[Marc ♫]

You've clearly made your point. This is the price we pay for living in Australia. It's the same across all brands, all products and all industries. No need to get into a pricing discussion.

I'm personally more excited about the world of possibilities this opens up. Hats off to Pioneer, pushing the boundaries and still investing in R&D

[Sicarius123]

It's only the cost of living in Australia because people allow it to be, if more people bought grey imports suppliers and retailers would have to learn to adapt pretty quickly instead of sitting on massively inflated profit margins.

If I can purchase something as an individual from overseas for what will most definitely be half the RRP without the benefits of bulk buying behind me there is a serious flaw in the supply chain.

Not to mention the "Australia" tax on most products is 20-40% markup which is far more reasonable than the 90% markup going on here.

Hats off to Pioneer for a fantastic product, but Pioneer Australia's markup is really dusgusting. When $900AUD is $933.40USD what is that massive markup over $500USD buying us?

Edited by Sicarius123, 28 May 2011 - 04:56 PM.

[Marc ♫]

Sorry, with all respect, there are so many factors you have not even considered in your argument, and I can tell it's just not worth my time. It's been covered on MEA so many times before.

[Sicarius123]

I really don't think my argument that Australian suppliers expect to make more money from being inefficient is invalid at all. The amount of times I've seen parts for cars which are made in Australia, that are not only cheaper from the US but delivered quicker as the higher cost Australians don't keep items in stock is ridiculous.

Just look at the price and delivery times from Aus and USA of an Australian made PWR Radiator as a quick example.

Edited by Sicarius123, 28 May 2011 - 05:19 PM.

[Stone]

Hats off to Pioneer for a fantastic product, but Pioneer Australia's markup is really dusgusting. When $900AUD is $933.40USD what is that massive markup over $500USD buying us?

What you don't understand is that US distributors buy more stock, so pay less per unit. That is one reason the US prices are lower than the Australian prices. Another is that the US market has so much more competition so they sell closer to cost price, which is possible because of the size of the market. Australian distributors cannot do this so you cannot realistically compare US prices to Australian prices.

I'm not posting this to argue with you. I'm posting it because you clearly don't know the facts.

[edit]
This post is referring to car audio, not radiators or other car parts.

Edited by Stone, 29 May 2011 - 07:55 PM.

[Sicarius123]

You pay twice as much money.

I'll buy from competitive retailers selling for half the price.

I have no problem from buying local when the price is semi-competitive, but I wont be blindly ripped off. There is no difference between car audio or anything else sold in Australia and elsewhere. Why should car audio get to be different?


As for American retailers being more competetive, that is why you will see this for US$400, not why the Australian RRP is double what it should be.

Oh and warranty? For half price I'll buy another one if I have issues.

Clearly members of this forum have issues with comprehending a global economy.

Edited by Sicarius123, 29 May 2011 - 09:04 PM.

[Marc ♫]

Or perhaps we spare a thought for our industry.

[Sicarius123]

The only possible reason you could be disagreeing with me is if you commonly make as much profit on these units as the pricing difference here implies.

If you are scraping by on minimum profit you are being ripped off by manufacturers and distribution while apparently loving it.

Other industries have adapted to at least minimal price differences, why can't this one?

[Stone]

Clearly members of this forum have issues with comprehending a global economy.

Clearly you didn't read my post at all. I'll simplify it for you... SOME BUSINESSES CAN NOT MATCH OR GET CLOSE TO THE US PRICES. IT'S NOT A CHOICE.

Edited by Stone, 30 May 2011 - 09:14 AM.

[Sicarius123]

Clearly you are far too defensive. I'll make it simple for you.

I'm not saying you need to match US cost price, the amount UNDER the RRP they will sell for in a more competetive market is what you seem to be fixated on. However there is NO reason the US RRP should be nearly half the aus RRP, I'm not saying there is no reason for it to cost more here, and i wouldnt of made a fuss if it was 600-700, but nearly double is laughable and clearly someone is being taken for a ride.

If it continues expect to see more and more customers purchasing overseas, I'm sure instead of adapting you'll make friends with Gerry Harvey.

[Marc ♫]

Let's just remember the unit isn't here or released yet. RRP is only speculation at the moment - you never know what might happen.

[Gozza]

I know what the problem here is guys.. RRP..

I hate this whole 'retail price' bullcrap. Who here HAS EVER paid for a product at retail prices???

The only company I know of that sets a price and sticks to it, is Apple. There is virtually no price differentiation with an Apple product.

Just because the RRP of the Pioneer headunit is $900 for example, the shops local to here may be selling them for $700! Whereas the RRP in the US might be closer to the actual street price of the unit.

Please don't quote retail prices as a definitive cost of the product. RRP is similar to the difference between the 'watts' of and amplifier and it's root mean square output of an amplifier - there is little to no correlation!

[Marc ♫]

"Go Price" or "Street Price" is probably more relevant as you say Gozza.

[Big_Valven]

Now for some more useful comments, If the Iphone is not plugged in, is this unit still able to be used as a radio?
Also, I know bluetooth has got better and better over the years, but since the Iphone is plugged in to function, surely that would do away with the need for bt?
This is a personal call, but

The power of AppRadio comes from the ability to simply and easily update its software, similar to many of today’s most powerful mobile devices.

I find this a disturbing trend... why would I want to software-update my car stereo? It seems more of a weak facade for not putting enough effort in to get the software right in the first place, but as we have seen from many mobile devices these days, devices in the early release stages often end up needing several software updates just to do what they say on the box. I will say though, that if Apple keep changing their devices often for very little reason, the ability for something like this to adapt will be useful.

Edited by Big_Valven, 03 June 2011 - 11:35 PM.

[Stone]

...I find this a disturbing trend... why would I want to software-update my car stereo? It seems more of a weak facade for not putting enough effort in to get the software right in the first place, but as we have seen from many mobile devices these days, devices in the early release stages often end up needing several software updates just to do what they say on the box. I will say though, that if Apple keep changing their devices often for very little reason, the ability for something like this to adapt will be useful.

It needs the software to be upgradeable for when Apple changes their software causing the products to be incompatible or when a new model iPod/iPhone is released.

Edited by Stone, 04 June 2011 - 09:56 AM.

[Sicarius123]

Given the iPhone / iPod touch have no fm/am radio I would presume the radio works fine if you forget your phone.

As for Bluetooth I don't think the iPhone can share music/video and voice/phonebook at the same time through the dock, but you're not really losing much with Bluetooth hands free.

I like the fact you could get in the car, listen to the radio and automatically pair for hands free calling without plugging in.

[Cyberpunky]

The only possible reason you could be disagreeing with me is if you commonly make as much profit on these units as the pricing difference here implies.

If you are scraping by on minimum profit you are being ripped off by manufacturers and distribution while apparently loving it.

Other industries have adapted to at least minimal price differences, why can't this one?

and other industries have disappeared completely.


I know you.

You are the guy who comes to me, to work out what product best meets your needs, but then goes and buys it online, not rewarding my expertise with a sale, so I can eat. You then come to me with your faulty imported product and can't understand why it isn't going to be fixed by the Australian distributor, who, like me, also made no money from your purchase. You then tell me that you dont understand as it is made by that company, and so should be fixed by them, as it is one company. I know you. You are very ignorant.

I then leave this industry because I like to eat, and many of the retailers, in the industry close down too, because they like to eat too. You complain some more about being ripped off by your local industry, while not supporting them at all. You kill this industry.

I know you. You are very ignorant. You have no understanding of the reality of what you speak. You see everything from the point of view of your wallet.You have no idea of what the consequences of your ignorant point of view does, and what spending your money offshore does to real Australians.

I know you and I thank you for only thinking about yourself and not others, because you, not getting ripped off, is far more important than having a viable industry.

I know you

[Cyberpunky]

Back on topic
I have thought since I got my double din fully connected screen/satnav/ipod/dvd/etc HU that I really wish it did even more with my iPhone. Then Pioneer read my mind and cam out with this brilliant HU. Tjis is the future of mobile entertainment and dare I say home entertainment too. True convergence.

Well done Pioneer for leading the way and giving us the future today
peace
Cyberpunky

[blanketman]

BRUCE YOU ROCK!!!!

[Sicarius123]

and other industries have disappeared completely.


I know you.

You are the guy who comes to me, to work out what product best meets your needs, but then goes and buys it online, not rewarding my expertise with a sale, so I can eat. You then come to me with your faulty imported product and can't understand why it isn't going to be fixed by the Australian distributor, who, like me, also made no money from your purchase. You then tell me that you dont understand as it is made by that company, and so should be fixed by them, as it is one company. I know you. You are very ignorant.

I then leave this industry because I like to eat, and many of the retailers, in the industry close down too, because they like to eat too. You complain some more about being ripped off by your local industry, while not supporting them at all. You kill this industry.

I know you. You are very ignorant. You have no understanding of the reality of what you speak. You see everything from the point of view of your wallet.You have no idea of what the consequences of your ignorant point of view does, and what spending your money offshore does to real Australians.

I know you and I thank you for only thinking about yourself and not others, because you, not getting ripped off, is far more important than having a viable industry.

I know you

You don't know me at all.

The closest I'll come to wasting your time is asking about a product to have you direct me to an overpriced lower model. I'll walk into your store, ask about a product and look at your price first, and if it's reasonable, then I'll talk to you and "waste your time" giving you a sale. I don't expect the same prices as overseas, but I do expect to earn the extra cost in good customer service and for it to be at a level that is worth local warranty.


Unfortunately the level of customer service in this country is so poor there have been many times I've walked out of local stores with thousands to spend and no money down. I bet they thought they knew I was a timewaster too.

I also don't expect local warranty on items I've bought for 1/3 or 1/2 local price, for that kind of saving it's worth the wait to send it back to reputable online stores.

I'm someone who has spent over $100,000 at local workshops in the last 10 years. In this time I've also learnt that spending that kind of money guarantees no level of service, while there are well priced online stores that will go extremely out of their way to make sales with excellent customer service.

Once again the only reason you could possibly have as a seller for not having a problem with the RRP, is if you are making a massive profit, otherwise you too would want Pioneer to be selling this item to your store at a much lower price which could translate into a much lower RRP. A lower RRP of course translates into more sales, which should translate into more labour. Isn't labour what everyone in the automotive industry claims is the only part of the business that makes money? Not to mention if you wont be selling this price for anywhere near RRP, why would you need to be defensive about the overpriced official pricing?

So once again, you don't know who I am. I have money to spend, and I'll happily walk out of your store with it if you pre-determine who you think I am or have an unhelpful attitude..

[Cyberpunky]

I'm someone who has spent over $100,000 at local workshops in the last 10 years.

So where did all that money come from. Did you get it from ripping people off by making a profit on what you do or getting a fair days pay for fair days work ? rich parents ?

So what you are saying is that all the specialist small car audio business closed because they had abysmal service and didn't know what they were doing ? and good ridance to them as they were rip off artists?

and now you are left with chain stores who employ people who know nothing about car audio or online and you are the one who wants good customer service ? where you going to find that when all the specialists have closed their doors ?

Yeah I know you alright. your the guy who decides what is a fair profit with no idea of actual business running costs. You are the guy who uses emotive terms like rip off, when people dare to try and eek out a living. You are the guy who jumps online and tells everyone how reasonable you are, and that you are happy to pay for good service, as long as they don't rip you off and how much is acceptable to pay for goods. I know you because you think your wallet makes you an expert. I know you because of how ignorant, illinformed, and biased all your comments in this thread have been. I know you all to well

Spend your money where and how you want but don't come on here and tell everyone what the price of a particular good should be, until you are the guy running that business, otherwise you just come off as a jerk. we have heard it all before.

I know you

[Marc ♫]

Spend your money where and how you want but don't come on here and tell everyone what the price of a particular good should be, until you are the guy running that business, otherwise you just come off as a jerk. we have heard it all before.

Gotta throw some weight behind that one as it is often so true. Having work in all aspects of this industry (retail, import, distribution, marketing) and then of course watching typical discussion threads on MEA for over ten years I have a fair understanding of how it all works in this industry. Unfortunately, "profit" has become a dirty word across the board, but mostly in Gen "Why?". They've grown up with online shopping and all they know is "cheapest price".

I have to agree with Cyberpunky however (who was already around when I was just discovering this industry 12-13 years ago), that unless you have worked in this industry, purchased from Australian wholesalers and distributors, paid for marketing, and then all the associated expenses of operating a bricks and mortar specialist store then don't for a second try and pretend you understand how it works, what typical margins are, and certainly don't dictate about retail pricing.

We're not saying that it's right (or wrong), but the pricing structure in Australian car audio (and most consumer electronics) is what it is thanks to a host of reasons, and let me assure you the guys at the retail front are not getting rich from what they do. The model in Australia needs serious work, but that has to come from the top - the manufacturers. Australia is how big, or should I say 'small' in comparison to US, Asia, Europe though?

[Sicarius123]

We're not saying that it's right (or wrong), but the pricing structure in Australian car audio (and most consumer electronics) is what it is thanks to a host of reasons, and let me assure you the guys at the retail front are not getting rich from what they do. The model in Australia needs serious work, but that has to come from the top - the manufacturers. Australia is how big, or should I say 'small' in comparison to US, Asia, Europe though?

This is what I've been saying. A lower RRP benefits everyone, you all keep saying you don't make large margins on these products, and you don't seem resistant to the idea of having the price lowered, just with me complaining the price set by the manufacturers in Australia is too high like this is a personal attack on you. You will keep losing customers as long as the prices are this ridiculously high, I'm not blaming you, I know it has to come from the top, and that was what I was complaining about in the first place, the manufacturers set RRP.

I've sunk 10-5k into labour on car mods at a time in the past. Funnily enough before I decided to really concentrate on performance I was going to do my stereo, but first I thought I'd get rid of the crazy japanese stereo and replace it with something basic for 6 months or so until I went big. The specialist local bricks and mortar store I took it to installed the headunit, re-wired the speakers and installed a hands free car kit. I took it back twice because the hands free worked like crap and the head unit didn't auto raise the antenna with radio like it claimed on the box. Their response? "Oh your car doesn't do that". These guys "knew" I was coming back for an install, and instead of treating me like a valued customer, couldn't be f***ed spending time on my initial install.

What was wrong? They'd wired the f***ing antenna into the amp remote, and put the mic for the hands free on backwards.

How did I find that out? By working it out myself and fixing it.

So much for paying Australian workers Australian wages to put Australian food on their chinese table.

When it came time to buy my next item, why should I pay the extra cost that store charged, instead of doing what they taught me to do and install it myself after buying it at the lowest price?

[Marc ♫]

This is what I've been saying. A lower RRP benefits everyone, you all keep saying you don't make large margins on these products, and you don't seem resistant to the idea of having the price lowered, just with me complaining the price set by the manufacturers in Australia is too high like this is a personal attack on you. You will keep losing customers as long as the prices are this ridiculously high, I'm not blaming you, I know it has to come from the top, and that was what I was complaining about in the first place, the manufacturers set RRP.

I've sunk 10-5k into labour on car mods at a time in the past. Funnily enough before I decided to really concentrate on performance I was going to do my stereo, but first I thought I'd get rid of the crazy japanese stereo and replace it with something basic for 6 months or so until I went big. The specialist local bricks and mortar store I took it to installed the headunit, re-wired the speakers and installed a hands free car kit. I took it back twice because the hands free worked like crap and the head unit didn't auto raise the antenna with radio like it claimed on the box. Their response? "Oh your car doesn't do that". These guys "knew" I was coming back for an install, and instead of treating me like a valued customer, couldn't be f***ed spending time on my initial install.

What was wrong? They'd wired the f***ing antenna into the amp remote, and put the mic for the hands free on backwards.

How did I find that out? By working it out myself and fixing it.

So much for paying Australian workers Australian wages to put Australian food on their chinese table.

When it came time to buy my next item, why should I pay the extra cost that store charged, instead of doing what they taught me to do and install it myself after buying it at the lowest price?

The price is being set by the Australian manufacturers (of which there are none in car audio by the way), but the price is what it is due to Australia being remote from the large continents of the world. This is the price we pay to live in a country as good as Australia is.
As for the specialist, yes there are LOADS that have a lot to answer for. Some of them do the term specialist no justice! That is why MEA has it's recommended specialists: http://www.mobileele...list_retailers/

I can't argue against DIY - I'm a big supporter of that and let's face it, my website and business, MEA - probably wouldn't be here if it weren't for the large DIY community that exists. I can still recommend buying locally however and supporting the local economy and industry. You just have to be better informed of what to use, and where to buy it and that's where MEA has a place in the industry.

[SSSpoosah]

The specialist local bricks and mortar store I took it to installed the headunit, re-wired the speakers and installed a hands free car kit. I took it back twice because the hands free worked like crap and the head unit didn't auto raise the antenna with radio like it claimed on the box. Their response? "Oh your car doesn't do that". These guys "knew" I was coming back for an install, and instead of treating me like a valued customer, couldn't be f***ed spending time on my initial install.

What was wrong? They'd wired the f***ing antenna into the amp remote, and put the mic for the hands free on backwards.

How did I find that out? By working it out myself and fixing it.

So much for paying Australian workers Australian wages to put Australian food on their chinese table.

When it came time to buy my next item, why should I pay the extra cost that store charged, instead of doing what they taught me to do and install it myself after buying it at the lowest price?

It's true, there are certain places that are just a waste of time going to...and in some cases dangerous


This is the thing, and I think it underpins the differences in opinion on this forum about buying overseas.

- The people who say buy in Aus, they don't expect you to pay more and get crap service, especially with install. When I recommend that people buy in Aus, I have in my mind places like FHRX, FCA, Phatt, Riverside- our specialist retailers. As Marc said, the reason why the program was initiated was that so people wouldn't get burned. These are the places pro-Aus supporters have in mind when they say buy local. Good places, good people- that deserve our support. Truly amazing retailers where nothing is too much for them. I don't care about paying more in Aus if it keeps such people in the industry. I would hope that when I hit 30 or so, and I hopefully have a more updated car. I could go back to FHRX, and have the same great experience.

- All the arguments for buying local- warranty (and by this I mean ease of obtaining, not existence vs non-existence with the manufacturer) being the main, will often fall away with a shonky operator. I've seen the way retailers try to get out of warranties. These aren't the type of places people are thinking of when they say buy local.

- People that say buy overseas- it isn't their fault. I went to FHRX. I've never had service like it (in a good way). It is the state of the retail industry at large that generates this argument. Honestly, some of the retailers I've dealt with- I would rather buy online just so I didn't have to buy from those type of people. Gen Y looks to the internet because of these atrocious businesses. They have been burned, and paid good money (and more than overseas) to be so treated. So the next time, they won't go bricks and mortar. I understand this perspective.

- But the buy local band also have been burnt (audio is just one of those industries I believe). BUT they have experienced the service of the good guys, and are willing to pay for it. I am too, and I like the assurance of a good, easily accessible business if something goes wrong

- I work in retail (auto accessories) and I know where cyberpunky is coming from. I believe that I treat customers well in terms of service. Somebody that comes in, takes your time (often a part number!) and does not buy, im fine with. It is the bloke, that comes in, takes your time, takes the part number, and then tells you that you are trying to rort him and he can get it for blah blah overseas or on ebay, that is annoying.

- Should we be paying so much more in Aus (as a matter of RRP and underlying costs)- that is something I can't comment on. My knowledge is just not that far extended. But what I believe is that the good retailers are not trying to rip us off, they do not determine their costs, and make very low margins. If somewhere up the chain is getting fat from the industry it is not them.

Edited by SSSpoosah, 22 September 2011 - 05:43 PM.

[Sicarius123]

I'm really glad I finally got my point across, sorry it took me so many posts to write it in a way that worked

[D34M0N.inc]

You pay for what you get if you don't then you haven't done your research right. Quick google or a quick question on a forum like this and bam you don't get ripped in the end.

Thats how i see it atleast.

[Stone]

This is what I've been saying. A lower RRP benefits everyone, you all keep saying you don't make large margins on these products, and you don't seem resistant to the idea of having the price lowered, just with me complaining the price set by the manufacturers in Australia is too high like this is a personal attack on you. You will keep losing customers as long as the prices are this ridiculously high, I'm not blaming you, I know it has to come from the top, and that was what I was complaining about in the first place, the manufacturers set RRP.

It is a personal attack as the company I work for has made losses for many years now and I've watched half my work mates be made redundant over the last 6 years or so due to the "massive profits" we make on our "huge markups". I don't see how lowering the RRP is going to help me or my work mates at all...