Well I thought I better start doing some research into a sub coz the 6x9's are muddy as anything.
I am unsure of subtype (enclosed, ported, free-air) and size (10 inch or 12inch)?
I hear 10's are nice and tight, but obviously 12's can go lower.
How exactly do you hear clear bass if the sub is in your boot? I don't have a ski port so how can bass reach the cabin without being muffled through the rear seat?
btw... I have a small boot (Prelude).
Thanks
------------------
HU: Sony MDX-CA680X
Fronts: Morel Dotech 6 splits
Front Power: Audison LRx2.250
Rears: Pioneer 6945 6x9s (Acting as subs! :) )
Rear Power : Sony XM-255EX (Low pass from LRx)
Full Version: SQ sub ... what to look for?
"How exactly do you hear clear bass if the sub is in your boot? I don't have a ski port so how can bass reach the cabin without being muffled through the rear seat?
btw... I have a small boot (Prelude)."
you just do the best you can,
can you go Free Air?
mount in parcel shelf, or behind rear seats *cough*cut the metal*cough*
*looks around* did i say that?
(of course i'd suggest if you did that, that you would add bracing and get it engineered)
rather than "looking" for a sub, "listen" for a sub.
listen to enough different models and you'll know what you want
take your own CD's to the shop, play DnB and R&B, see which subs sound better with what music. pick the one that best suits you.
"I hear 10's are nice and tight, but obviously 12's can go lower. "
not always true, as a general rule of thumb this does apply, but it mainly comes down to enclosure design rather than the size of the woofer.
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'96 Mirage, currently resembling a tin can
uninstalled: Rockford RFX9300, Focal 165W3's Vrx 2.150 & 1.500
Power by: HERTZ audison OPTIMA StingerAerpro
TEAM AUDISON
btw... I have a small boot (Prelude)."
you just do the best you can,
can you go Free Air?
mount in parcel shelf, or behind rear seats *cough*cut the metal*cough*
*looks around* did i say that?
(of course i'd suggest if you did that, that you would add bracing and get it engineered)
rather than "looking" for a sub, "listen" for a sub.
listen to enough different models and you'll know what you want
take your own CD's to the shop, play DnB and R&B, see which subs sound better with what music. pick the one that best suits you.
"I hear 10's are nice and tight, but obviously 12's can go lower. "
not always true, as a general rule of thumb this does apply, but it mainly comes down to enclosure design rather than the size of the woofer.
------------------
uninstalled: Rockford RFX9300, Focal 165W3's Vrx 2.150 & 1.500
Power by: HERTZ audison OPTIMA StingerAerpro
TEAM AUDISON
it's amazing how well subbbass penetrates into the car despite not being a big opening. i doubt your boot will be completely sealed from the cabin, so there will be air vents/leaks; although you can facilitate things by removing any rear parcel shelp speakers and leaving open holes (refitting the grills).
you front stage looks great. so you should utilise a nice quality sub, and ideally a new subamp (eg: LRx1.400) for best performance.
as usual, budget will determine what you buy.
i personally like the benefit of a 12", which i think blends nicely with splits no smaller than 6" (ie: smaller splits would be better with a smaller sub). so you can LP the sub at ~70Hz and HP the splits accordingly.
i also follow the principle running a single sub with ample power on tap rather than trying to run multiple subs with insufficient power.
for SQ, sealed is probably better. having said that, there are SQ-biased subs that suit ported well (eg: hertz HS300, focal utopia 33WX, IDQ, kicker S12L7, etc).
if not already, would be worth 'learning' how to fiddle with a box design program like WinISD so compare and see how different response curves of subs alter with box design.
later...
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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO
Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]
you front stage looks great. so you should utilise a nice quality sub, and ideally a new subamp (eg: LRx1.400) for best performance.
as usual, budget will determine what you buy.
i personally like the benefit of a 12", which i think blends nicely with splits no smaller than 6" (ie: smaller splits would be better with a smaller sub). so you can LP the sub at ~70Hz and HP the splits accordingly.
i also follow the principle running a single sub with ample power on tap rather than trying to run multiple subs with insufficient power.
for SQ, sealed is probably better. having said that, there are SQ-biased subs that suit ported well (eg: hertz HS300, focal utopia 33WX, IDQ, kicker S12L7, etc).
if not already, would be worth 'learning' how to fiddle with a box design program like WinISD so compare and see how different response curves of subs alter with box design.
later...
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hmm.... more for me to think about. Thanks for the feedback. Everything is in the planning stage at the moment.
I'm thinking going for a Hertz Air 3000 (12 inch) (is this a good sq sub to look at?)in a box. Haven't worked out the dimensions yet (i think i have about 600mm x 400mm x 200mmm to spare) which is about 48L and appears to be more than their 'best' volume recommendation of 25L (smallest is 17 L).
If I were to go down this road, I think I could get some bass into the cabin by removing my rear break light which may be able to open a smallish hole, or I guess I could remove my rear 6x9s from the parcel shelf, but I was hoping to keep them their as rear fill off the HU.
Either way, I gather from what you are saying Shiny, that as things are bass penetration should not be a prob?
As for an amp... well LRx1.400 (350W at 4ohms) is indeed an initial thought....
but a bridged Lrx2.250 can pump out 420W at 4 ohms.
I guess however, that the 1.400 would be better designed to handle the high current demands of a sub? On the other hand.... the 2.250 maybe a cheaper proposition. Any thoughts?
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HU: Sony MDX-CA680X
Fronts: Morel Dotech 6 splits
Front Power: Audison LRx2.250
Rears: Pioneer 6945 6x9s (Acting as subs! :) )
Rear Power : Sony XM-255EX (Low pass from LRx)
I'm thinking going for a Hertz Air 3000 (12 inch) (is this a good sq sub to look at?)in a box. Haven't worked out the dimensions yet (i think i have about 600mm x 400mm x 200mmm to spare) which is about 48L and appears to be more than their 'best' volume recommendation of 25L (smallest is 17 L).
If I were to go down this road, I think I could get some bass into the cabin by removing my rear break light which may be able to open a smallish hole, or I guess I could remove my rear 6x9s from the parcel shelf, but I was hoping to keep them their as rear fill off the HU.
Either way, I gather from what you are saying Shiny, that as things are bass penetration should not be a prob?
As for an amp... well LRx1.400 (350W at 4ohms) is indeed an initial thought....
but a bridged Lrx2.250 can pump out 420W at 4 ohms.
I guess however, that the 1.400 would be better designed to handle the high current demands of a sub? On the other hand.... the 2.250 maybe a cheaper proposition. Any thoughts?
------------------
HU: Sony MDX-CA680X
Fronts: Morel Dotech 6 splits
Front Power: Audison LRx2.250
Rears: Pioneer 6945 6x9s (Acting as subs! :) )
Rear Power : Sony XM-255EX (Low pass from LRx)
quote:
Originally posted by Jet:
I'm thinking going for a Hertz Air 3000 (12 inch) (is this a good sq sub to look at?)
If I were to go down this road, I think I could get some bass into the cabin by removing my rear break light which may be able to open a smallish hole, or I guess I could remove my rear 6x9s from the parcel shelf, but I was hoping to keep them their as rear fill off the HU.
The Hertz Air Mile subs are very nice. Heard Marc Rushtons the other week (free air setup) and it sounded extremelly sweet
As for removing the brake light, don't. You will make your car instantly unroadworthy!
Better to get rid of the 6x9's. I would use the cash from the sale of the 6x9's and sony amp to fund the new sub/amp
With a good sub backing up your good front stage, the only people that will be complaining about no rear fill will be your passengers. And they're just freeloaders anyway
Good luck
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Source : Clarion DXZ715
Loud : F: Clarion SRS-1623 S: Pioneer TS-W303F(sealed 2cu/ft) R: d/c
Boost : F: Clarion VNET 250 S: Response 2x150(modded) R: d/c
System Power : 700+ WRMS System SPL : 124.8dB @ 53Hz Car : 92 Calais, BADBIS Name : Scott Badman
SQ/show system in progress.....
* Processor * stacker * Floor * Neons * Glass
* 2 12" subs * Mono block * New 2ch amp * 1 pair SQ splits
First Member of Team SQ, a reality not a dream
no worries Sbadman... the rear brake light is redundant (it is actually disconnected eletrically) coz i have a rear light in my rear spoiler I'm guessing most SQ ppl will tell me to dump the 6x9s... I dunno.. I thought they would have been nice just to be providing a little rear fill... but I guess I can only work that out when I get the sub installed first!
------------------
HU: Sony MDX-CA680X
Fronts: Morel Dotech 6 splits
Front Power: Audison LRx2.250
Rears: Pioneer 6945 6x9s (Acting as subs! :) )
Rear Power : Sony XM-255EX (Low pass from LRx)
Ah ok, fair nuf then
trust me, once you have a sub, you won't need the 6x9's
And you don't win SQ comps with rear fill hehe
------------------
Source : Clarion DXZ715
Loud : F: Clarion SRS-1623 S: Pioneer TS-W303F(sealed 2cu/ft) R: d/c
Boost : F: Clarion VNET 250 S: Response 2x150(modded) R: d/c
System Power : 700+ WRMS System SPL : 124.8dB @ 53Hz Car : 92 Calais, BADBIS Name : Scott Badman
SQ/show system in progress.....
* Processor * stacker * Floor * Neons * Glass
* 2 12" subs * Mono block * New 2ch amp * 1 pair SQ splits
First Member of Team SQ, a reality not a dream
trust me, once you have a sub, you won't need the 6x9's
And you don't win SQ comps with rear fill hehe
------------------
Source : Clarion DXZ715
Loud : F: Clarion SRS-1623 S: Pioneer TS-W303F(sealed 2cu/ft) R: d/c
Boost : F: Clarion VNET 250 S: Response 2x150(modded) R: d/c
System Power : 700+ WRMS System SPL : 124.8dB @ 53Hz Car : 92 Calais, BADBIS Name : Scott Badman
SQ/show system in progress.....
* Processor * stacker * Floor * Neons * Glass
* 2 12" subs * Mono block * New 2ch amp * 1 pair SQ splits
First Member of Team SQ, a reality not a dream
I am a great believer in the "Keep It Simple, Stupid" principal.
The Prelude has a fairly small cabin front-to-back and not really rear passenger friendly anyway. I would dump the 6x9s and go with the monoblock option if you can find the $$.
The Hertz free-air things do work nicely and with that tasty front stage, the total combo will give very nice results.
------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE
The Prelude has a fairly small cabin front-to-back and not really rear passenger friendly anyway. I would dump the 6x9s and go with the monoblock option if you can find the $$.
The Hertz free-air things do work nicely and with that tasty front stage, the total combo will give very nice results.
------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE
Dont worry about the bass penetrating into the cabin in a prelude, believe me it gets in there fine. My bro has a 12" ZR running of just 160WRMS and it cranks in his lude.
Simply set your budget, and go and listen to a whole heap of subs that in your price range, of various sizes. The Hertz should do nicely if you like the sound of it.
Oh yeh, i doubt you'll need rears in there. My bro didnt notice i disconnected his rears, except that for some reason his setup sounded nicer an he couldnt explain it
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TEAM /////ALPINE
TEAM Digital-Is-A-Marketing-Gimic Member
"The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action."
Simply set your budget, and go and listen to a whole heap of subs that in your price range, of various sizes. The Hertz should do nicely if you like the sound of it.
Oh yeh, i doubt you'll need rears in there. My bro didnt notice i disconnected his rears, except that for some reason his setup sounded nicer an he couldnt explain it
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Jet wut generation Lude do u have?
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Honda Prelude 1990
Head Unit: Pioneer DEH - 6450
Front Speakers: Boston Rally 6.5inch components
Power: Rockford Fosgate 300x Amp
Sub: Rockford Fosgate HE-3412 12inch
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Honda Prelude 1990
Head Unit: Pioneer DEH - 6450
Front Speakers: Boston Rally 6.5inch components
Power: Rockford Fosgate 300x Amp
Sub: Rockford Fosgate HE-3412 12inch
quote:
Originally posted by Jet:
How exactly do you hear clear bass if the sub is in your boot? I don't have a ski port so how can bass reach the cabin without being muffled through the rear seat?
btw... I have a small boot (Prelude).
I find that a decent set of 6" splits that are high passed lowish (eg, 70Hz) will provide all the 'clearness' of the bass. The sub is there to 'back it up' kind of...
I know that when I went from hardly any midbass to lots of midbass, I got a LOT more detail in all bass notes, everything sounded a lot clearer in the bass department even though I didn't touch the sub :P
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HU: Clarion DRX7675z
FRONT STAGE: Blaupunkt GT6 6.5" Splits
FRONT AMP: Coustic 240SE
SUB: JL Audio 12" W0-4
SUB AMP: Clarion Vnet 2100
WIRING: Aerpro 8GA power cable and home made UTP RCAs :P
Axis - "Muahahaha!"
Thanks for that everyone. More for me to think about. Sifoo... its 97+model.
I was originally contemplating just running the front splits full range and then of course low passing to the subs, but some ppl have indicated that I should high pass the splits. Is there an SQ reason for HPing the splits, like making their work a little easier? Or will the overlap in frequencies for both speakers' be a 'bad' thing?
------------------
HU: Sony MDX-CA680X
Fronts: Morel Dotech 6 splits
Front Power: Audison LRx2.250
Rears: Pioneer 6945 6x9s (Acting as subs! :) )
Rear Power : Sony XM-255EX (Low pass from LRx)
I was originally contemplating just running the front splits full range and then of course low passing to the subs, but some ppl have indicated that I should high pass the splits. Is there an SQ reason for HPing the splits, like making their work a little easier? Or will the overlap in frequencies for both speakers' be a 'bad' thing?
------------------
HU: Sony MDX-CA680X
Fronts: Morel Dotech 6 splits
Front Power: Audison LRx2.250
Rears: Pioneer 6945 6x9s (Acting as subs! :) )
Rear Power : Sony XM-255EX (Low pass from LRx)
Would firing a sub upwards into my rear parcel shelf (therefore in the direction of the empty 6x9 holes) be deterimental to SQ bass? Or is it better to stick to rear-of-the-car firing direction?
------------------
HU: Sony MDX-CA680X
Fronts: Morel Dotech 6 splits
Front Power: Audison LRx2.250
Rears: Pioneer 6945 6x9s (Acting as subs! :) )
Rear Power : Sony XM-255EX (Low pass from LRx)
------------------
HU: Sony MDX-CA680X
Fronts: Morel Dotech 6 splits
Front Power: Audison LRx2.250
Rears: Pioneer 6945 6x9s (Acting as subs! :) )
Rear Power : Sony XM-255EX (Low pass from LRx)
quote:
Originally posted by Jet:
Would firing a sub upwards into my rear parcel shelf (therefore in the direction of the empty 6x9 holes) be deterimental to SQ bass? Or is it better to stick to rear-of-the-car firing direction?
get it and muck around is your best bet. Different cars/subs/boxes make different sounds overall and change the SQ ...
You need to hi-pass the splits for reasons of both clarity and power handling.
The lower you work them the more cone excursion they need to produce for a given power level.
Try orienting your box different ways if you can to seed what works best. There are heaps of people getting good results in all sorts of ways.
------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE
The lower you work them the more cone excursion they need to produce for a given power level.
Try orienting your box different ways if you can to seed what works best. There are heaps of people getting good results in all sorts of ways.
------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE
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