Has anyone had personal experience with this type of setup and know how actually affective it is in raising the sound stage and if there are any downsides?

To be more specific .. ambience tweets is having 'secondary' tweeters up high (i.e. A pillar) attenuated accordingly in the effort to lift the stage.

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T-bro.

i'll try it when i upgrade my dyn tweets in the future, but it looks to have potential doesn't it?!

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see i have to try it with the tstock tweets i have one day, they are high up on the dash (near the windscreen).

Just have to figure out how to hook the bastards up (without ripping the dash apart!!)

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i use ambient (or secondary) tweeters in my system, and am VERY impressed with the effect they have. benefits when executed sensibly include:

- sound stage perceived to be around 6-8 inches higher on average
- can strengthen the perceived centre image
- can counteract the 'rainbow' effect to lift the extreme left/right images
- prevents response becoming 'dull' when legs block your primary tweeters in the kicks/doors
- restores some of the ambience put into recordings, eg, you can get the feel of an orchestra or underground blues club, as the cars expanded soundstage better imitates the original

like anything in life, there are downsides, such as:

- can make system too bright or harsh
- can blur or stretch vocal images
- can induce *vertical* frequency selective steering, where images move upwards slightly as their pitch increases
- if set too loud, the secondary tweeters position will become obvious

but overall, im very happy with the effect, though i recommend that the secondary tweeters be able to be EQ'ed independent of the existing speakers, so they can be made to blend nicely, and also to have their gains set indepenently (running them off the rear outputs and using the fader to set their level works well).

the key is to experiment with lots of locations with some spare tweeters BEFORE you commit to the idea, and dont be afraid to try weird locations and aiming them both on-axis, off-axis, and reflecting off parts of the interior.

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Custom SQ System

Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street

Boston builds this possibility into their x-overs, and HP them at 10k (I think) with this set-up.
There is info on their site about it, prob worth a look, tho' I've never tried it.

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Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE

T-Bro has hit the nail squarely on the head. The only thing I would add to his comments would be if you wish to try this scenario, I would suggest using the same tweeters rather than two different models. This will alleviate some, if not all, of your tuning difficulties.

Steve Hutchison

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Hutch

yes, ideally, as hutch suggests, using the same brand of tweeters will keep results more consistent and make tuning and blending the tweeter arrays less problematic.

in my own particular case, i use different tweeters to my primary drivers. this is because i actually aim mine off reflective surfaces in the cabin, where soft-domes can be a little smoother and less harsh in this role than my primary metal domes that are at home in the non-reflective environment of my door pods. that and i can EQ my ambient tweeters idependently to make them blend.

and as critter suggests, boston rally's can be upgraded with an ambient tweeter kit - the only manufacturer that provides this (GO BOSTON!). so for people that like the concept, and want to keep things simple, this could be worth considering.

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Custom SQ System

Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street

I reccommend the use of ampient tweeter.
Im running 165w3's with the mid and tweet in the kicks. In my last car, i didnt have a second set of tweeters and it sounded like the sound was comming from the foot well.
In my new car i am running the focal tn45 i think thats the model, as ambient tweets and the sound stage is right on top of the dash.


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ECLIPSE FOCAL BUTLER IMAGE DYNAMICS MTX PHOENIX GOLD

ive got the boston rally's, and i was gonna buy the optional ambient tweeter, until i asked how much they were.

The entire spkr package of the boston rally splits costed me $495 new...

The extra ambient tweeter costs $299... figure that out ?

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[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]
Front stage : Boston rally splits
Rear stage : Boston RM 6 inches
sub : yet to decide
amp1 : Sony xm7547
amp2 : Signat
HU : Clarion DXZ 715

ouch. that is a lot of money relative to the splits as you say.

what does the ambience tweet kit include? plug-in modules for the stock passive xovers and tweets right?

wonder how much a couple replacement tweets would be...

oh well, i'm sure they're not walking out the door...so just wait until a new model is released and then they'll be cheap.

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yep, you get the plug in module and the tweeter,, and prob for that price they chuck in the mounting brackets for the tweeter.

The funny thing is though..the boston pro spits only cost $800 if u pay cash...

So when you buy the ambient tweeter for the boston rally's you actually pay the same amount as buying the pro series ($800)

Question is, which way would most ppl go ???



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[/SIZE]

[SIZE=1]
Front stage : Boston rally splits
Rear stage : Boston RM 6 inches
sub : yet to decide
amp1 : Sony xm7547
amp2 : Signat
HU : Clarion DXZ 715

i'd go 'pros' for sure. far more potential there.

btw, boom4U, your sig is looking a bit weird unfinished.

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i personally decided on the boston pro's for the primary drivers as these are great, live sounding speaker set that are balanced and accurate - with enough detail and forwardness for my tastes.

i then added boston FS-series kortec dome tweeters as the ambient drivers, these are very similar to the rally tweeters except these are 3/4" rather than 1". the result is more than pleasing.

so yeah, assuming you want ambient tweeters, going with pro's ends up more expensive than getting the rally package, as you have to buy the additional tweeters, and run them off seperate amplifier channels and add some kind of crossover to highpass them properly - all costs additional to the $800 paid for the original speakers.

so the rally package is cheaper and simpler in the end. listen and decide i guess

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Custom SQ System

Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street

quote:

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(running them off the rear outputs and using the fader to set their level works well).

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Sorry to drag up an old topic, but anyway...
Are you suggesting running the ambient tweets from the HU rear outputs, or a 4ch. amp?
I don't have any spare amp channels ATM, so in your oppinion, would running the ambient tweets off the HU be a good idea?

cheers

quote:

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Originally posted by Mickee:
I don't have any spare amp channels ATM, so in your oppinion, would running the ambient tweets off the HU be a good idea?

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running off the HU will be ok. you just need to have an appropriate passive HP filter using a capacitor.


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as ambient tweeters should be set at a lower volume to your primary tweeters, deck power would be acceptable you would simply use the fader control on the HU to set the level of the ambient's relative to the primary's such that a nice blend resulted. but yeah, you still need to highpass them - possibly a spare passive crossover lying around could be patched in to do this, unless your HU offers this feature.

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Custom SQ System

Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street

I heard it was a good idea, to have them in the a pillars firing across the dash at each other, to try to avoid reflections that could hurt the imaging..

did you try this T-bro?

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i tried this briefly, but didn't go for it because the nearest ambient was too loud and obvious. this may have been because i had them angled towards me slightly, whereas you want to crossfire them which would work better.

i personally find that aiming ambients away from you and at hard surfaces like the windshield, dash etc, works well, it creates better ambience through dispersing treble, which ensures that your primary tweeters dont get drowned out. so possibly for you, putting the ambients on the sails but aimed towards the windscreen may help. it will add reflections and fuzzy the imaging slightly, but there is always a trade off with secondary drivers

so don't be afraid of reflections, done well, you can make them work in your favour!


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Custom SQ System

Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street