Yesterday while at my gf's house, her brother setup his speakers in the lounge room to a nad amp etc. I haven't heard many great systems, but this one blew me away. It was moderate by all means, BUT the imaging was crazy to me.
When I was listening to the music it sounded like all the music was coming out of the center channel used for dvds (which was unplugged) and sounded like the voice was right there in front of me.
Now car wise I've always noticed (more so now) my imaging is slightly skewed to the right, drivers side. I'm not too worried about stage height yet, but tweeter positioning is killing me. I've got them angled evenly towards the middle, but I can still tell. My hu has no time alignment or anything fancy either
I was thinking about kicks etc just for the tweeters but haven't had time to fully muck around with it , and am sitll not sure if it will work ...
How do you guys with great sq cars, good imaging and balance manage to achieve this??
Full Version: imaging advice
time alignment! 
but if you don't have it...tweeter position is important. the benefit of kickpanel mounting is that it closer approximates having the tweeters equidistant from your ears, left and right.
beyond that, you can also cheat by using the 'balance' feature on your HU and steer things more towards the left.
others have mucked around with reversing the polarity of the nearside (usually i think) tweeter (ie: swap +ve and -ve wires over) which puts it 180 degrees out of phase which can work as a crude time alignment.
hope this helps.
------------------
/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO
Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]
but if you don't have it...tweeter position is important. the benefit of kickpanel mounting is that it closer approximates having the tweeters equidistant from your ears, left and right.
beyond that, you can also cheat by using the 'balance' feature on your HU and steer things more towards the left.
others have mucked around with reversing the polarity of the nearside (usually i think) tweeter (ie: swap +ve and -ve wires over) which puts it 180 degrees out of phase which can work as a crude time alignment.
hope this helps.
------------------
do you use time alignment on your car, or has the kicks worked for you?
I've done that fading to the left a bit more, but I still haven't mucked around fully with all possible spots for them and angles ....
I've done that fading to the left a bit more, but I still haven't mucked around fully with all possible spots for them and angles ....
i have time alignmet via an external alpine processor. i've yet to install my dynaudio splits but the tweet will be in the kickpanel area (stock is high up in doors, bah!).
------------------
/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO
Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]
------------------
this is a very tough issue
i have never and don't think i will ever, hear a car that images as well as a home system (or as well as the original recording). i just don't think it can be done in the confines of a cars cabin with the listeners jammed to the outside of the stage.
however the high end SQ cars that do image well use a whole host of trickery and cheating to get close to ideal imaging. i won't go into all of them in detail, but its important to realise from the outset that a car just won't image like a home system - virtually every car i've ever listened to exhibited listener-side bias (the tendancy you mentioned for sonic images to be cramped towards your end of the stage). even time alignment doesn't totally get around it, its a band-aid solution like all attempts to get correct imaging.
ideally you want centre images to appear to originate from the centre of the dash (ie where your CD player goes), with left and right images originating from the corners of the dash. this is very difficult, and when it does manage to be achieved, what inevitably occurs is that you lose volume, dynamics, body, frequency extenion and image definition in one of (usually the nearside) channels.
oh, and for the record kickpanel mounting doesn't totally get around the problem either (according to my ears anyway), it makes it alot better than factory locations, but listener-side bias still occurs. time alignment works ok when you only play centre-stage information, but when the whole stage comes alive with music, images get a little blurry, the stage width shifts to one side - and you make it much worse for the other passenger.
i could go on and on about how hard it is to get a car to image well, but the take-home message is do NOT expect your car or any car to image like that home stereo you experienced - just ain't gonna happen
instead, accept that you will get close but it will always be inaccurate and biased and somewhat diffuse, and look into the standard band-aid solutions around it:
- low and forward speaker mounting (doors/kicks)
- pods angling the speakers on-axis with opposite passenger
- keeping tweets and mid close together
- using a centre channel speaker/processor
- time alignment
- stereo 1/3 octave equalisation
- ambient drivers/tweeters
- moving the seating position as far back as possible
when you pull it together well, you will be rewarded with a dash that comes to life, with vocalists, musicians and each instrument distinctly seperate, with the whole stage detached from the physical speakers, and each image being _roughly_ where it might be on the original stage. it wont be perfect, but it will certainly be engaging and thrilling to listen to!
and in the end that's all that matters
------------------
Custom SQ System
Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street
i have never and don't think i will ever, hear a car that images as well as a home system (or as well as the original recording). i just don't think it can be done in the confines of a cars cabin with the listeners jammed to the outside of the stage.
however the high end SQ cars that do image well use a whole host of trickery and cheating to get close to ideal imaging. i won't go into all of them in detail, but its important to realise from the outset that a car just won't image like a home system - virtually every car i've ever listened to exhibited listener-side bias (the tendancy you mentioned for sonic images to be cramped towards your end of the stage). even time alignment doesn't totally get around it, its a band-aid solution like all attempts to get correct imaging.
ideally you want centre images to appear to originate from the centre of the dash (ie where your CD player goes), with left and right images originating from the corners of the dash. this is very difficult, and when it does manage to be achieved, what inevitably occurs is that you lose volume, dynamics, body, frequency extenion and image definition in one of (usually the nearside) channels.
oh, and for the record kickpanel mounting doesn't totally get around the problem either (according to my ears anyway), it makes it alot better than factory locations, but listener-side bias still occurs. time alignment works ok when you only play centre-stage information, but when the whole stage comes alive with music, images get a little blurry, the stage width shifts to one side - and you make it much worse for the other passenger.
i could go on and on about how hard it is to get a car to image well, but the take-home message is do NOT expect your car or any car to image like that home stereo you experienced - just ain't gonna happen
instead, accept that you will get close but it will always be inaccurate and biased and somewhat diffuse, and look into the standard band-aid solutions around it:
- low and forward speaker mounting (doors/kicks)
- pods angling the speakers on-axis with opposite passenger
- keeping tweets and mid close together
- using a centre channel speaker/processor
- time alignment
- stereo 1/3 octave equalisation
- ambient drivers/tweeters
- moving the seating position as far back as possible
when you pull it together well, you will be rewarded with a dash that comes to life, with vocalists, musicians and each instrument distinctly seperate, with the whole stage detached from the physical speakers, and each image being _roughly_ where it might be on the original stage. it wont be perfect, but it will certainly be engaging and thrilling to listen to!
and in the end that's all that matters
------------------
quote:
Originally posted by T-Bro:
this is a very tough issue
i could go on and on about how hard it is to get a car to image well, but the take-home message is do NOT expect your car or any car to image like that home stereo you experienced - just ain't gonna happen
Yea I know this for sure, its just isn't really happening unless you somehow put your speakers where the passenger sits or something like that. But it would be nice to get as close as possible ....
I'm going to deaden my doors, and angle the mids soonish so hopefully that'll solve some problems ...
This is probably an overdone question but wouldn't the passengers legs partially block the sound from the tweets if you install them in the kick panel? I'm pretty new to the SQ scene but that was my first thought... I assume you would still have to aim them towards the opposite head rest as well?
------------------
Car: '95 Mitsubishi Lancer GLXi Coupe
Head Unit: JVC KD-SX950
Front: 6.5" Focal Polykevlar 165K's (being installed)
Front Amp: Audison LRx 2.150 (being installed)
Rear: 6" Pioneer TS-A1665 (3-way)
Rear Amp: Nothing (yet)
Subwoofer: 1 x JL Audio 12W3-D2 @ 4 ohms
Sub Amp: Jaycar (Response) 2x150 @ 450WRMS bridged
Current SPL: 118.0 db
------------------
Car: '95 Mitsubishi Lancer GLXi Coupe
Head Unit: JVC KD-SX950
Front: 6.5" Focal Polykevlar 165K's (being installed)
Front Amp: Audison LRx 2.150 (being installed)
Rear: 6" Pioneer TS-A1665 (3-way)
Rear Amp: Nothing (yet)
Subwoofer: 1 x JL Audio 12W3-D2 @ 4 ohms
Sub Amp: Jaycar (Response) 2x150 @ 450WRMS bridged
Current SPL: 118.0 db
i think what T-Bro said on imaging a car like home audio is pretty true. It's extremely hard, or rather, near impossible to achieve home audio like imaging in car. However, we can get close by optimum speaker location.
From my personal experience and IMO, i find that kickpanel has to offer the best location due to its ability to minimise the path length differences(PLD) between the left and right speakers. It's kinda tough to be able to fit a 6.5" speaker with a tweeter in the kicks because the room behind the kickpanel will not allow for sufficient airspace. What i did to compensate for this was to use a 5" midrange and tweets in the kicks with a dedicated midbass in the doors. A 5" will need lesser airspace as compared to a 6.5". With imaging, i guess u have to first realise the nature of different frequency ranges. The following(from Mark Eldridge) may be helpful when it comes to planning to speaker location:
0-100Hz - non-directional
100-400Hz - totally path length determined
400-2,000 Hz - transistion from path length to intensity
2,000+ Hz - can be controlled with intensity differences
In my previous setup with CDT HD 5.2 in the kicks and Total Recoil as midbass in the doors, i find it extremely hard to get decent imaging with the Total Recoil in the doors playing up to 300hz. After reading up a little, i dropped it to 150hz and imaging immediately improved. I guess this has to do much with the time-arrival basis. While i managed to achieve decent imaging, staging was compromised due to rainbow effect. This resulted in the stage width collapsing at both ends. I guess this is the trade-off of getting a focused center with decent height. I was lucky to get away with the rainbow by an additional pair of ambience tweeters on the dash. They were the same tweeters as those in the kicks and had similar crossover points. It was attenuated(using a potentiometer) by a fairly large amount to prevent it from disrupting the center image while lifting up the soundstage at both ends. My end result was more than what i asked for and i was happy with it. I guess, end of the day, u gotta be realistic with the capability of a car to image as well as home audio.
If kick panel is out of the question for u, u can always look into other ways to achieve decent imaging and staging. Time alignment is definitely a good idea for stock door location although it can come at a price. In addition, with time alignment, optimum result can normally be achieved for only one person at any one time. In other word, if u tune the car to stage and image for the driver, the passenger side will sound bad. Others have also achieve decent result by deliberately putting one of the speakers out of mechanical phase. Lastly, u can always try horns, although they can be hard to get right.
Personally, i have tried all and find with every configuration, there are pros and cons. I chose kick panel because they do allow me to get a more stable image and wider soundstage. With time alignment(having played with a P9 combo for a couple of months), i find that it's extremely hard to get things right although it seems relatively easy in theory.
Hope it helps.
------------------
ALPINE CDA 7949e
Morel MT 2
Morel HCW 8
Dynaudio MW 150
Image Dynamics IDMax
Audison Vrx 4.300 EX
Audison Vrx 2.400 EX
Audison Vrx 1.500 EX
Optima
[Edited 1 time by joel on 12 September 2002 at 07:44]
From my personal experience and IMO, i find that kickpanel has to offer the best location due to its ability to minimise the path length differences(PLD) between the left and right speakers. It's kinda tough to be able to fit a 6.5" speaker with a tweeter in the kicks because the room behind the kickpanel will not allow for sufficient airspace. What i did to compensate for this was to use a 5" midrange and tweets in the kicks with a dedicated midbass in the doors. A 5" will need lesser airspace as compared to a 6.5". With imaging, i guess u have to first realise the nature of different frequency ranges. The following(from Mark Eldridge) may be helpful when it comes to planning to speaker location:
0-100Hz - non-directional
100-400Hz - totally path length determined
400-2,000 Hz - transistion from path length to intensity
2,000+ Hz - can be controlled with intensity differences
In my previous setup with CDT HD 5.2 in the kicks and Total Recoil as midbass in the doors, i find it extremely hard to get decent imaging with the Total Recoil in the doors playing up to 300hz. After reading up a little, i dropped it to 150hz and imaging immediately improved. I guess this has to do much with the time-arrival basis. While i managed to achieve decent imaging, staging was compromised due to rainbow effect. This resulted in the stage width collapsing at both ends. I guess this is the trade-off of getting a focused center with decent height. I was lucky to get away with the rainbow by an additional pair of ambience tweeters on the dash. They were the same tweeters as those in the kicks and had similar crossover points. It was attenuated(using a potentiometer) by a fairly large amount to prevent it from disrupting the center image while lifting up the soundstage at both ends. My end result was more than what i asked for and i was happy with it. I guess, end of the day, u gotta be realistic with the capability of a car to image as well as home audio.
If kick panel is out of the question for u, u can always look into other ways to achieve decent imaging and staging. Time alignment is definitely a good idea for stock door location although it can come at a price. In addition, with time alignment, optimum result can normally be achieved for only one person at any one time. In other word, if u tune the car to stage and image for the driver, the passenger side will sound bad. Others have also achieve decent result by deliberately putting one of the speakers out of mechanical phase. Lastly, u can always try horns, although they can be hard to get right.
Personally, i have tried all and find with every configuration, there are pros and cons. I chose kick panel because they do allow me to get a more stable image and wider soundstage. With time alignment(having played with a P9 combo for a couple of months), i find that it's extremely hard to get things right although it seems relatively easy in theory.
Hope it helps.
------------------
ALPINE CDA 7949e
Morel MT 2
Morel HCW 8
Dynaudio MW 150
Image Dynamics IDMax
Audison Vrx 4.300 EX
Audison Vrx 2.400 EX
Audison Vrx 1.500 EX
Optima
[Edited 1 time by joel on 12 September 2002 at 07:44]
Well I placed the tweeters in another position last night and they sound alot better/different.
This is my basic car setup:
My stock locations fit 6x9s perfectly, but I made a mount for it to house 6.5" mids. Also will try to angle it in a few weeks.
Firstly I had the tweeters placed above the midbass and close to me. (Figure 1. Blue).
They were just stuck on with double sided tape for testing, and drivers side was facing me directly.
Next I put them in the pocket (Figure 2. Red) facing up and to the opposite head rests. The sound wasn't as in your face, but there was a little less seperation, the soundstate was noticebly lower.
Last night I put them in another position:
This position so far has the least or hardly any seperation as far as I can tell. They're angled towards the opposite headrest and upwards. There's a little less drivers side bias now, and I can play alot louder and the music doesn't feel like its right at my ears like with Figure 1.
Also when I play music at lowish volumes the soundstage is fairly low, lower than Figure 2. but as I increase to a louder/normalish listening levels it seems to be ok .....
This is my basic car setup:
My stock locations fit 6x9s perfectly, but I made a mount for it to house 6.5" mids. Also will try to angle it in a few weeks.
Firstly I had the tweeters placed above the midbass and close to me. (Figure 1. Blue).
They were just stuck on with double sided tape for testing, and drivers side was facing me directly.
Next I put them in the pocket (Figure 2. Red) facing up and to the opposite head rests. The sound wasn't as in your face, but there was a little less seperation, the soundstate was noticebly lower.
Last night I put them in another position:
This position so far has the least or hardly any seperation as far as I can tell. They're angled towards the opposite headrest and upwards. There's a little less drivers side bias now, and I can play alot louder and the music doesn't feel like its right at my ears like with Figure 1.
Also when I play music at lowish volumes the soundstage is fairly low, lower than Figure 2. but as I increase to a louder/normalish listening levels it seems to be ok .....
cool. looks like your beginning to find the sweetspot. thanks for keeping us updated, that's interesting feedback.
------------------
/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO
Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]
------------------
yeah one of the funny things about car stereos is that the louder you play them, the higher the stage seems to be (and the quieter you play, the lower it is).
as far as my own experiences go, this is primarily because at high volume your treble reflects off the windscreen and creates the illusion of greater stage height. that, and at low volume humans don't pick up high and low frequencies very well, which deteriorates the stereo effect.
------------------
Custom SQ System
Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street
as far as my own experiences go, this is primarily because at high volume your treble reflects off the windscreen and creates the illusion of greater stage height. that, and at low volume humans don't pick up high and low frequencies very well, which deteriorates the stereo effect.
------------------
I use an Alpine processor that is a few years old now for it's LPS function.
It adds a little hiss that is audible at loud volumes but the imaging is superb and I consistantly get comments from people about it. A couple of IASCA judges have said that it's one of the best that they've ever heard.
Tweets are on the air vents on top of my dash facing straight up with the mids in the doors' factory locations.
I have been using my time in the home audio industry as a reference point. As you can imagine, after 15+ years doing it, I've owned and listened to some nice systems.
------------------
WINNO
2002 NZ Pro Street Champion.
Nakamichi MF-51 changer, DAC-41 20 bit dac, CD-45z h/u
Alpine ERA-G320 processor
Phoenix Gold ZX-450 power amp
Boston Pro 6.5 components
Infinity Beta 10 subs
[Edited 1 time by Winno on 22 September 2002 at 16:34]
It adds a little hiss that is audible at loud volumes but the imaging is superb and I consistantly get comments from people about it. A couple of IASCA judges have said that it's one of the best that they've ever heard.
Tweets are on the air vents on top of my dash facing straight up with the mids in the doors' factory locations.
I have been using my time in the home audio industry as a reference point. As you can imagine, after 15+ years doing it, I've owned and listened to some nice systems.
------------------
2002 NZ Pro Street Champion.
Nakamichi MF-51 changer, DAC-41 20 bit dac, CD-45z h/u
Alpine ERA-G320 processor
Phoenix Gold ZX-450 power amp
Boston Pro 6.5 components
Infinity Beta 10 subs
[Edited 1 time by Winno on 22 September 2002 at 16:34]
im intrigued im starting to hear of the odd 'tweet on dash' system here and there that is supposed to sound fantastic. in fact one of the IASCA killers in the USA uses this setup. according to him, it works because the tweeters are aimed such that they use windscreen reflections to their advantage, while keeping the midranges carefully aimed in the kicks. while it goes against alot of 'theories' and rules, id be interested in hearing such a setup that worked well. i'd imagine that time alignment, gain controls and a healthy dose of independent equalisation would help it along
its just that when i tried metallic dome tweeters on top of my dash, in each corner, aimed up at the glass, treble was far to easily localised and accentuated. but that was totally unprocessed so not a true indication of what might be able to be achieved.
interesting topic id like to learn more about
------------------
Custom SQ System
Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street
im starting to hear of the odd 'tweet on dash' system here and there that is supposed to sound fantastic. in fact one of the IASCA killers in the USA uses this setup. according to him, it works because the tweeters are aimed such that they use windscreen reflections to their advantage, while keeping the midranges carefully aimed in the kicks. while it goes against alot of 'theories' and rules, id be interested in hearing such a setup that worked well. i'd imagine that time alignment, gain controls and a healthy dose of independent equalisation would help it along its just that when i tried metallic dome tweeters on top of my dash, in each corner, aimed up at the glass, treble was far to easily localised and accentuated. but that was totally unprocessed so not a true indication of what might be able to be achieved.
interesting topic id like to learn more about
------------------
Here's a pic of the set up.
I also use a dash mat now made of fuzzy carpet that's been steam shaped and trimmed to look the part. This helped to reduce the "haze" in the stage and made it more 3 dimensional. The tweets fire at the glass about 150mm above them which helps to give the impression that they are mounted higher than they really are.
They are attenuated pretty heavily because as you can imagine, glass and metal domes don't mix too well.
It sounds nice and smooth though.
------------------
WINNO
2002 NZ Pro Street Champion.
Nakamichi MF-51 changer, DAC-41 20 bit dac, CD-45z h/u
Alpine ERA-G320 processor
Phoenix Gold ZX-450 power amp
Boston Pro 6.5 components
Infinity Beta 10 subs
I also use a dash mat now made of fuzzy carpet that's been steam shaped and trimmed to look the part. This helped to reduce the "haze" in the stage and made it more 3 dimensional. The tweets fire at the glass about 150mm above them which helps to give the impression that they are mounted higher than they really are.
They are attenuated pretty heavily because as you can imagine, glass and metal domes don't mix too well.
It sounds nice and smooth though.
------------------
2002 NZ Pro Street Champion.
Nakamichi MF-51 changer, DAC-41 20 bit dac, CD-45z h/u
Alpine ERA-G320 processor
Phoenix Gold ZX-450 power amp
Boston Pro 6.5 components
Infinity Beta 10 subs
nice setup winno i recall seeing your system on the web before actually. do you find the centre image to be well placed (ie if a vocalist is in singing centre stage, he/she appears to sing from the Cd player/ centre air vents?
so you actually have confirmed an audible improvement in image definition through the use of a carpet dash mat? lots of the hardcore IASCA guys swear by them, but i've never heard tried it myself, but am curious about giving it a go. it certainly makes alot of sense in terms of minimising the reflective surface around the front stage.
actually, on that topic, there are reports from the USA that applying carpet to the steering column and under-dash panels helps also, especially given that kick/doors pods fire so closely to these reflective areas.
i guess once my latest system overhaul is complete, i can whip out a few beach towls and line the dash top with those to test the concept
(for the record i can hear the difference in acoustics between cars with leather interior vs cloth/velour, the leather cars have a bit more echo and sound lighter, airier and more diffuse, whereas the cloth cars sound more solid, stable and a little more defined.)
------------------
Custom SQ System
Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street
i recall seeing your system on the web before actually. do you find the centre image to be well placed (ie if a vocalist is in singing centre stage, he/she appears to sing from the Cd player/ centre air vents?so you actually have confirmed an audible improvement in image definition through the use of a carpet dash mat? lots of the hardcore IASCA guys swear by them, but i've never heard tried it myself, but am curious about giving it a go. it certainly makes alot of sense in terms of minimising the reflective surface around the front stage.
actually, on that topic, there are reports from the USA that applying carpet to the steering column and under-dash panels helps also, especially given that kick/doors pods fire so closely to these reflective areas.
i guess once my latest system overhaul is complete, i can whip out a few beach towls and line the dash top with those to test the concept
(for the record i can hear the difference in acoustics between cars with leather interior vs cloth/velour, the leather cars have a bit more echo and sound lighter, airier and more diffuse, whereas the cloth cars sound more solid, stable and a little more defined.)
------------------
Yeah, the old beach towel test will do it. Just don't tell Bluedog. He'll say that you're mental...hehehehe.
I got the mat from Repco over here in NZ. Strathfield's will probably have them. The one I got is actually made in Oz anyway. I forget what the brand is. Was NZ$129.00
With the set up, I can't tell that any sound is comming from down near my feet. It's quite uncanny really. Alot of guys bag me for it and then they listen to the system and have nothing more to say.
All good fun anyways.
------------------
WINNO
2002 NZ Pro Street Champion.
Nakamichi MF-51 changer, DAC-41 20 bit dac, CD-45z h/u
Alpine ERA-G320 processor
Phoenix Gold ZX-450 power amp
Boston Pro 6.5 components
Infinity Beta 10 subs
I got the mat from Repco over here in NZ. Strathfield's will probably have them. The one I got is actually made in Oz anyway. I forget what the brand is. Was NZ$129.00
With the set up, I can't tell that any sound is comming from down near my feet. It's quite uncanny really. Alot of guys bag me for it and then they listen to the system and have nothing more to say.
All good fun anyways.
------------------
2002 NZ Pro Street Champion.
Nakamichi MF-51 changer, DAC-41 20 bit dac, CD-45z h/u
Alpine ERA-G320 processor
Phoenix Gold ZX-450 power amp
Boston Pro 6.5 components
Infinity Beta 10 subs
Interesting topic.
I've been fiddling with my front co-ax's a little bit (temporary, dont worry) and my systems decided to be different. Where as most of you guys have found your "center" stage to be biased towards the drivers side of the car, I find mine is biased towards the passengers side ! I'm going to try and rid it of this (and center it properly) with the new front stage
In reguards to the speakers in the dash.. I tried a set of 3" mids in the factory location for a while. The result was stuffed imaging and a very lethargic sound in the mid to high spectrum.
------------------
WF Festiva: Clarion, Kenwood, Rockford Fosgate, StreetWires Small, Blue, Different
TR Magna: Alpine, Orion, Rockford, SoundStream, StreetWires Big, Maroon, Different
Idle Problems ? Clean your throttle body, IAC & fuel filter
Acceleration Issue ? Tank of PULP with 1 cup Metho & Spitfire
More Power ? Foam filter, Sports muffler, TypeR Badge
Busted Clutch Racing "Second ?"
I've been fiddling with my front co-ax's a little bit (temporary, dont worry) and my systems decided to be different. Where as most of you guys have found your "center" stage to be biased towards the drivers side of the car, I find mine is biased towards the passengers side ! I'm going to try and rid it of this (and center it properly) with the new front stage
In reguards to the speakers in the dash.. I tried a set of 3" mids in the factory location for a while. The result was stuffed imaging and a very lethargic sound in the mid to high spectrum.
------------------
WF Festiva: Clarion, Kenwood, Rockford Fosgate, StreetWires Small, Blue, Different
TR Magna: Alpine, Orion, Rockford, SoundStream, StreetWires Big, Maroon, Different
Idle Problems ? Clean your throttle body, IAC & fuel filter
Acceleration Issue ? Tank of PULP with 1 cup Metho & Spitfire
More Power ? Foam filter, Sports muffler, TypeR Badge
Busted Clutch Racing "Second ?"
yeah, heaving your primary drivers right next to glass often sounds harsh, irritating and 'hollow' - papery is the word i like to use. stage layout and imaging tends to be terrible as each speaker is easily localised thanks to heavy reflections.
but your predicament with the farside channel being louder is interesting and unusual!
one little tip - don't *totally* write-off your factory dash locations, once you have some good pods in, they may make a good home for secondary ambient drivers only experimentation will show.
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Custom SQ System
Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street
but your predicament with the farside channel being louder is interesting and unusual!
one little tip - don't *totally* write-off your factory dash locations, once you have some good pods in, they may make a good home for secondary ambient drivers
only experimentation will show.------------------
This carpet stuff you're talking about, its a dash-mat right? To stop the relfections on the windscreen? You can buy em anywhere, not that expensive either ...
I think my last effort for the tweeters was the sweet spot, and with a bit of angling the image is more centered. I've found though with the slightest movement of them things change quiet a bit.
Deadening soon, and will try to angle the mids as well, will post pics and my results. Ambient tweets are in the back of my mind now, we'll see how that goes
I think my last effort for the tweeters was the sweet spot, and with a bit of angling the image is more centered. I've found though with the slightest movement of them things change quiet a bit.
Deadening soon, and will try to angle the mids as well, will post pics and my results. Ambient tweets are in the back of my mind now, we'll see how that goes
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