Hey CAA's.

I'm stuck. My problem is I want SQ from my system but I don't want to cut holes in my doors or build pods for components.

-Currently in the car I have HU and OLD Pioneer 4" that need upgrading.

-Sitting in the cupboard I have
- SUB
- 1 Kenwood amp
- Kenwood 9-band EQ
- reasonable 6x9's (I know, bad for imaging etc etc, don't have to install)

-I've done LOTS of reading on SQ (Cyberpunky's site, forum searching etc etc) and looking around, all resulting in me understanding my problem more, but not knowing where to go.

I'll buy 1 more amp (if needed) and one set of 4" coax's or splits.

OPTIONS:
1) Install EQ, new 4", existing amp and SUB, run sub of 2 channels bridged and 4" or other 2
2) Run 4" front orr amp, and old 4" in back off HU, Sub off other 2 channels
3)Buy new amp, run New 4" front, OLD 4" OR 6x9's rear of sub OR HU and new amp for sub so it pumps.

whatever else options there are.

WHAT SHOULD I DO?????????????????????
I like my music linear, balanced, punchy and clear (like everyone i guess)

**** , help me. :|

timmah

What is your budget and what kind of car is it going into?



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Honda - The Power of Dreams
Honda Integra VTi-R

System in progress: Alpine, Audison, G-Spot, Hertz, Morel, Optima
Custom SQ system will debut at MAS 2003

My budget, say $400.

Toyota Celica, 1986 model.

I understand the need to make a marked improvement for anything to be worth it.

Second hand gear is a possability.

thanks

hmm, that's a hard one. $400's not a big budget.

but tell us more:
*what model sub
*what model kenwood amp and it's power ratings

overall, i'd probably suggest some good 4" speakers, and a new amp for them. good 4" coax's cost ~$200, and splits cost more. maybe consider boston accoustics, focal, infinity.

an amp producing 2x50WRMS would be fine. maybe an alpine MRP-T130 (~$200 streetprice), or clarion VNET2100, or blaupunkt GTA250.

would be nice if these amps had suitably high HP filters to suit the small 4" speakers, say 250Hz 12dB/oct. otherwise add you own capacitor inline with the speakers for a shallower 6dB/oct xover. maybe a non-polarised 100uF cap for a 400Hz xover (jaycar cat no. RY-6920 $5.05ea).

as there's likely to be a frequency 'gap' between a sub and 4" speakers, it would be worth installing the 6x9s just for some lower midrange and midbass. also HP these, say with a 200uF non-polarised cap (eg: jaycar cat no. RY-6928 $8.95 ea).

hope this helps.

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i think you may have some difficulty getting an sq system setup properly. i am no expert and still learning myself, but in order to get the best setup, chances are you will need to build some sort of pods, kick panels or some minor custom work at the very least.
i don't know what you will get for $400, but i think second hand is your best bet. a nice set of 6.5' splits for the front would be a good start.

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/ / / / / A L P I N E 7 9 9 8
Front Stage: Dynaudio 340
Rear Fill: Blaupunkt Overdrive coaxials 5.25"(just ordered morel integra 6!!!!)
Alpine V12 MRV-F401
Alpine V12 MRV-F201
Sub: Kicker 10" (soon to be Xtant)
Flashtack & G-SPpot
Stinger Dream Series (& some expert series on the way)

You are gonna struggle to get good mid-bass with 4" drivers.
6x9 in the rear will help, also look at sealing up and deadening the doors (I imagine that's where the 4s are going) to get it more "up-front".

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Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE

Details.

My amp's a Kenwood KAC-745. I think it's a solid 45WRMS thru 4 channels, Quoted at 80Watts I think.

My sub is a Cerwin Vega XL-12D. It'll be in a ported box in the boot with port and speaker pointing through open back seat. 2.23cu feet tuned between 30 and 35 hz.
The sub's Dual Voice Coil, each coil rated at 125WRMS.

Installing the 6x9's means my sub's gotta be REALLY shallow, long and deep to fit under the speakers in the parcel shelf.

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CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Kenwood AMP
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon.
Heavy Metal.

Details.

My amp's a Kenwood KAC-745. I think it's a solid 45WRMS thru 4 channels, Quoted at 80Watts I think.

My sub is a Cerwin Vega XL-12D. It'll be in a ported box in the boot with port and speaker pointing through open back seat. 2.23cu feet tuned between 30 and 35 hz.
The sub's Dual Voice Coil, each coil rated at 125WRMS.

Installing the 6x9's means my sub's gotta be REALLY shallow, long and deep to fit under the speakers in the parcel shelf.

------------------

CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Kenwood AMP
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon.
Heavy Metal.

pleeeeeease help, this has gone on for soooooooooo long

gotta say i have no idea how high end, live and believable sound quality can be attained on such a budget and without making modifications

but if thats what you have to play with, id use a pair of 4" splits so you can at least aim the tweeter (double sided tape etc will ensure this doesnt do permanent damage), id put the 6x9's in the rear for your mid-bass reenforcement, and slap that sub and amp in. then use your EQ to get it as smooth, balanced and linear as possible. it will image and stage poorly and lack realism, but at minimum it should sound satisfying for non-critical listening

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Custom SQ System

Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street

quote:

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Originally posted by timmah2:
My amp's a Kenwood KAC-745. I think it's a solid 45WRMS thru 4 channels, Quoted at 80Watts I think.

---

so would be about 2x100WRMS into 4ohm when bridged, which is not bad for the sub.

quote:

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My sub is a Cerwin Vega XL-12D. It'll be in a ported box in the boot.

2.23cu feet tuned between 30 and 35 hz.

---

i don't know the thiele-small specs (Fs, Qts, Vas) so cannot comment on this box design.

quote:

---

Installing the 6x9's means my sub's gotta be REALLY shallow, long and deep to fit under the speakers in the parcel shelf.

---

don't know if it's possible/cosmetically feasible to use spacers for the 6x9s to raise them up a bit?

as discussed, you cannot expect to attain a great soundstage or imaging with the proposed setup. however, i'm sure your realise this with the compromises you're taking. and personally, i can appreciate the reluctance to go customising your doors, etc.

indeed 4" splits would provide the ability to angle-mount the tweet for beneficial improvements in soundstaging.

however, i think your budget would preclude buying a good set.

so for your $400, my suggestion still stands. if you had double this, then that'd be different.

good luck

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

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thanks heaps for the ideas guys!!!!!!!!!!!!

the spacers for the 6x9's sound good, I'll do some ringing around to see where i can get some.

any ideas what 4" coax's/splits would be good. Brands I've been recommended include the MTX 6000 and Kenwood series by Strathfield, some Dynaudio coax's by JB, and some Fusion splits by Ryda. All of these I think I was looking around $220 or so. Unfortunately places don't usually seem to have their 4" sets ready for instore testing

Morel Integra 4s - one of the best sounding coaxials you'll find (non-biased opinion ). Mine will be up for sale shortly as soon as I get my door pods finished. Check them out in the CAA online store.

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Pioneer - Morel - JL Audio - Coustic -Alpine - DLS
The new home of the little mouse that ROARED!

for spacers, they're very easy to make from mdf. if you have access to tools like a jigsaw, then go for it. and of course mdf comes in a large variety of thicknesses (3/6/9/12/18/25mm); find some cheap offcuts at a hardware. and cover them in vinyl or something.

and mdf is much better than plastic spacers, coz mdf doesn't resonate like plastic can.

for speakers, you really need to try and audition as many as you can. don't limit yourself to just those speakers you recommend, see what else is out there. but as you say, unfortunately not many places stock a large range of 4".

good luck

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

quote:

---

Originally posted by timmah2:

-Sitting in the cupboard I have
- SUB
- 1 Kenwood amp
- Kenwood 9-band EQ
- reasonable 6x9's (I know, bad for imaging etc etc, don't have to install)

timmah

---

I know the feeling buddy.....
my sub is still sitting in my cupboard waiting for me to build a box, who was so inconsiderate to put an HSC in the year that i wanted to modify my car....


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Dont Drive Aussie Trash....

Thanks heaps all you guys, esp shiny for your help CHEERS!

still can't make my mind up, it'll come to me

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CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Kenwood AMP
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon.
Heavy Metal.

actually, I was just thinking, If I get that set of splits/coaz's in the standard position under the dash, and if I'm not happy in a year with the setup, THEN the door pod's can go in with 6 inch's and good passive crossover design. 3-way front stage. I think that's where I'm at now.

I'm PM'd the dude above about his Integra-series coax's - you guys got any opinions on these?

timmah

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CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Kenwood AMP
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon.
Heavy Metal.

morel integra's are seriously excellent. they are very much 'up there' from what i can gather.

and they would potentially make for a nice 'top end' for a 3-way setup, but preferably with an 8" woofer. hee,hee, if you're going to make pods, might as well make big ones!

for any good soundstage, the 4" coax's would perform well when mounted, angled, in the kickpanel region. maybe something to consider down the track.

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

hmmm, time for some wierd and wacky stuff,

have u seen cyberpunkys car??
he has 8in? mids mounted in removable box's on the floor infront of the seat's,

how about this:- use the 6*9's in the same position, but get the tweeters disconected (i dont know the correct way of doing this)
and use 4in splits up the front, it will give u better imaging then having all the midbass up the back and will look alot different and impress your friends with your instaling prowess!!

i hope that made sence!!
cheeres
rob

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THE ARTIST FORMALY KNOWN AS RHUBEN
car:1 the pulsar N12
nothing, not a single speaker

car:2 SEAT CORDOBA Sony HU Hertz HKS165Boston rally 10in
Hertz H4??

Thanks shiny 4 the advice

Fuddbutter, good idea!!!

The amp's will be under the seats so little wiring

Only forseeable problem is that it's a 2 door car so as soon as i have to let someone in the back gotta move the speakers. Maybe I could set up some sort of velcro deal? I might go check cyberpunky's site again to see if he's got pics

timmah

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CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Kenwood AMP
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon.
Heavy Metal.

I'm gonna do it, fuddbutter you're a legend!

I've got this nice dark solid wood I was gonna use for my sub too that will look awesome!
timmah

4" and amp plus a full weekend and lots of trips to stores to buy the things i forgot and I'm set





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CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Kenwood AMP
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon.
Heavy Metal.

hey, the box's will probably be sealed - do i need to worry about t/s specs of the 6x9's for the best performance or shouldn't i worry about the box design? I was planning on making them as small as possible

timmah

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CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Kenwood AMP
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon.
Heavy Metal.

i wouldent seal the box,
6*9's are designed fof free air setup,
build the box with no bottom and no back so all the air go's under the front seat.

but good luck with it and post some pic's when u have finnished!!

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THE ARTIST FORMALY KNOWN AS RHUBEN
car:1 the pulsar N12
nothing, not a single speaker

car:2 SEAT CORDOBA Sony HU Hertz HKS165Boston rally 10in
Hertz H4??

yeah i fear you may lose mid-bass output if you make the enclosures too small. certainly this has been my experience with infinite baffle (IB) speakers

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Custom SQ System

Source: Clarion DRX-9675z - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics FS50 Midrange - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street

ok guys, thanks

I'll post 'em

this will be good, help cool the amps under the seats

timmah

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CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Kenwood AMP
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon.
Heavy Metal.

hey shiny and others - got any opinions on this technique?

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Need 4 channel amp for 2way active front :)at a budget
CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
6x9's will go infront of front seats - didn't see that coming!
DVC Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon and bridged 4ch. Kenwood AMP.
Heavy Metal.

me? the others are spot on here. small sealed boxes for speakers designed for IB/free-air typically makes them boomy and lose low-down response.

but i guess experiment. fuddbutter's suggestion is interesting and could work well. indeed you should 'disconnect' the tweeters and only leave the woofer functional (overall impedence won't change significantly). you can either 'cut' the tinsel leads to the tweets or else add a simple low-pass filter in the form of a coil:

*wire inline/series with the +ve speaker wire a 1.0mH coil per speaker (eg: jaycar cat no. LF-1322 $8.90)
*this will offer a 6dB/oct LP filter at 600Hz that should blend pretty well with say a 400~600Hz HP for your 4" speakers (experiment)

hope this helps.

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

OK well as the 6x9s wont need to produce sub bass you dont need huge a$$ boxes. If my 8s needed to get down to 20Hz I wouldnt be able to use the boxes I do, but its only midbass they need to produce.

As suggested, cut the tinsel leads to tweeters(on 6x9s) and then tape them so no chance of a short or be very particular about how you cut them, like cutting a section out so they cant touch. The Impeadence will be 4 ohms as imp is freq dependent, so dont worry about that.

The dash mounted speakers will be OK for midrange but will suffer in higher freqs due to tweet pointing down but you could either use 4 inch splits or get 4 s that have directional tweeters, although its doubtful you will get the best angle.

Anyway it can be done and on a budget but will take some messing around and going away from what everybody else does(but thats half the fun).
peace
Cyberpunky

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"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
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All your base are belong to us! ;)
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I brought some gear! A Rockford Fosgate 200M single channel amp for the sub putting 200WRMS into 2OHMS, and some Boston Coax's.

I'm scared that I didn't get what's best for me, but what can I do.

another q - if I cut the tinsel leads should I still low-pass the 6x9's to about 600Hz?

thanks

timmah

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Need 4 channel amp for 2way active front :)at a budget
CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
6x9's will go infront of front seats - didn't see that coming!
DVC Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon and bridged 4ch. Kenwood AMP.
Heavy Metal.

sounds like you've made some good value purchases.

even if you cut the tinsel leads, would be worth LPing the woofer. coz otherwise you're still sending it the midrange-treble which is unnecessary. it won't reproduce it too well but will still be trying! and that may adversely affect the soundstage/imaging.

so if you HP them from the amp, and LP via a coil, you're effectively 'bandpassing' them which is ideal.

good luck

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

Hey Everyone!

Ok, the front 4's are in the dash after some cutting and black sealant and spacers were used in many unconventional ways.

The boxes for the 6x9's are made, and my car now is missing seats, all under-dash and carpet. I'll post some pics once I'm all done if you guys want.

timmah

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Need 4 channel amp for 2way active front :)at a budget
CD Player :)
Kenwood EQ
Need new 4" for standard mounting spots
6x9's will go infront of front seats - didn't see that coming!
DVC Cewin Vega Sub with Box coming soon and bridged 4ch. Kenwood AMP.
Heavy Metal.

this is sounding good, i wouldent mind checking it out when come up for FB!!

rob!!

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SPL? it's overated come to the SQ side of things!

wanna buy something car audio? buy it here! WebAudioDirect!

cool.

start a thread in My Pics & System forum with ya pics. would love to see the progress.

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

Good stuff: SOunds pretty damn sweet, and the sub's not even in yet I'll try it with my mate's sub first to make sure the rest of the system is performing before I build my box.


Problem 1

The 6x9's have proven to be too close to the ground for good bass-response. I can tell the drivers are capable of it because once I lift the boxes about 15 cm's off the ground It sounds great, pretty tight (for dodge speakers)and good spl.

I tried running free air to see if I could just make frames for more "breathing" room for the cones but no good, worse again

Ideas on good speakers for s m a l l spaces on small budgets with tight bass? Maybe I should start a new thread asking about this one.

timmah

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System semi-installed, sounding good.

Need good bass/mid ->600Hz from something sticking out from under front seats of a 2 door car

stop press: forget that last post

Just spent 4 hours playing with everything. Almost perfectly fixed up a mechanical problem with the sub, tuned and drove for ages and ****DAMN**** it's sounding good. Once i gave the boston's enough power the sung!

Pity the left one is crapping-out on medium volume mid range frequencies, so I'll have to get them changed out on warranty and GO THRU ALL THAT F*****G S**T of sealing the front up again "GRRRRRRRRRRRR".

Got a lot better response with the sub facing back in an old 3-way box, still more experimenting needed b4 I build. It's almost good enough with this old thing except it doesn't fit under the parcel shelf

When can i get ppl's opinions? FB or FD or whatever it's called? Will ppl give my little system the time of day? oh well, to me it's MIGHTY FINE sound quality on sub-$1K.

Metal sounds good, Tool was awesome, and Pink Floyd Comfortably numb I almost froze. Radiohead Karma police was good, almost cried

Dude's if you wanna give you system a good test, try the song "The Moor" by a band called Opeth. Thick riffs, fast kicks, reverb'd Strats, acoustic guitars and awesome vocals. I can burn u a copy if u want one, maybe for a swap cd?.

timmah

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System semi-installed, sounding good.

Need good bass/mid ->600Hz from something sticking out from under front seats of a 2 door car

good to hear things are coming along well.

perhaps attend some CAA meets and have the SQ gurus audition and criticise your system. it's always helpful to have others provide feedback to help finetune the setup. and sometimes it can be as simple as tweaking the gains and xovers for marked improvements.

many melbourne cars will be at Final Battle so would be great to see you there. albeit difficult to see your car, you can of course see many CAA cars in the display.

good luck

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]