hey guys.

after some minor experimenting on the weekend with my subbox position, i'm planning a major overhaul of the boot in the future. but i don't think i'll have it done in time for FB.

at the moment, the subby's firing directly into the cabin through the ski-port. very punchy, and very accurate. but lacking low-end response, and a tiny bit boomy. and in all honesty, a bit disappointing.

so i pulled it out from its position (no mean feat), and sat it on my amp rack (!), firing upwards and rearwards. wow, much nicer subbass response! the effect of rear loading is great, providing much deeper subbass, and much less boom.

and i tweaked the time-alignment on my processor, and the SQ was excellent. that's still only with rearfill too!

hmm, so i've got a lot of work ahead of me. check this out:

stage I: in time for FB
*dyn 7" 2-ways front stage (nearly done)
*multimedia

stage II: boot overhaul
*audison VRx's
*new subbox
*change alpine processor to dolby digital

stage III:
*active 3-way front stage
*centre channel

phew. and yes, it'll be at least 6 months till all this is done.

oh well, plenty of nice paper weights on hand.

anyway (side-tracked per usual), what i meant to say is: that firing the sub directly into the cabin has not been what i thought it would be. not for my car anyway, and not to my tastes.

ah well, you gotta make mistakes along the way to get it right! back to the drawing board...

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

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[Edited 1 time by shiny_car on 30 September 2002 at 23:26]

sounds like you have a plan

make sure you take plenty of pics and post them up for those of us who can be at FB

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SUB: Digital Designs
AMPS: MTX
STUFF: JAYCAR
LIVE TO DOOF

yeah, no probs with pics! i keep everyone updated in My Pics & System forum.

in case you haven't seen my picturetrail pics: picturetrail: shiny's install

/self-promotion

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

Good luck Shiny

We'll be following your install with great interest

You system has spent more time in your cupboard then ya car. Oh well, the endless pursuit of perfection and all that. Can't wait to see the final result!

Oh, and ain't rear cancelation a pita, best possie seems to use the most boot space. Oh well...

------------------
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bluemini: "weapon, have you been in to daddies medicine cabinet today??"
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Team Digital-Is-A-Marketing-Gimic Member
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looks like temptation has got the better of you shiny...it just proves once again that there are no set rules for best SQ as every car and every listener is different

you just have to go out there and experiment with it facing every direction you can think of and eventually you'll find something that works

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Keep it loud - And make me proud

i warned ya shiny i foudn the same thing, now i have a beautiful back of the box with perspex and carpeted inside, but you cant see it because i turned to box around to rear load it! Its very disappointing, in fact i might recover my current box.

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Marc A
1968 Ford Cortina Mark 2 (Rare 2 Door Model)
1998 Suzuki Across

///ALPINE Oz Audio Pioneer Infinity MTX KENWOOD AERPRO
- 134.7dB with 100rms of Weconic Grunt!
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lemme know if you need any help with the new centre channel

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Custom SQ System
Dolby Prologic II in 3.1

Source: Clarion DXZ-925 w/ DPL2 Decoder - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics Pro 5.5LF - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street

tsk tsk.
how much experimenting was done?
oh well you had to redesign everything to get the VRx's in anyway.

------------------
'96 Mirage, currently resembling a tin can
uninstalled: Rockford RFX9300, Focal 165W3's Vrx 2.150 & 1.500
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TEAM AUDISON

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr_Bob:
how much experimenting was done?

---

not enough!

oh well, not a big deal. i know what i need to do now, it's just a matter of time and $$. but i'll get there.

'how embarrassment'

T-bro: i'll no doubt seek your advice nearer the time my centre channel goes in.

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Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

quote:

---

Originally posted by shiny_car:


'how embarrassment'

---

Noooo, i'm afraid to say, this is the worst EMBARRASSMENT.... HAHAHAHA... i thought you were good with grammer :P (however you spell it!)
Aaron


------------------
Noise producer - Clarion DRX9675
Noise Increasers - MTX 500D - Pioneer GMX-944 - Bridged to the front stage
Making Noise Heard - CDT Audio HD Splits - Pioneer Coax (Bah!)
Low Bumpy Noises - Alpine Type R - Sealed 1 cuft(Going to be 2 if i need it)
------------------
-Team SQ, A Reality Not a Dream :)
-Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

damn, thought you were saying goodbye to your SQ friends and gooing to SPL like the rest of us

------------------
2002 Holden Astra
HU: Blaupunkt Miami Beach
Front Stage: Orion XTR 6.2
Front Amp: PPI 2360 2x90
Subs: 2 x Audiobahn 1200Q
Sub Amp: JBL 1200.1
Dead Last at Drag Combat 2-3 Woofer class
Winner at BAS 161-260sq inch.

I suggest that you install the dyns first then play with your sub box, because the dyns will vastly change the midbass up front then which will impact on getting a smooth transition from sub bass to mid bass

------------------
* Clarion 9255
* a/d/s 336.IS
* Phase Linear Aliante 12 x2
* PhoenixGold ZX450/500

quote:

---

Originally posted by shiny_car:
stage II: boot overhaul
*audison VRx's
*new subbox
*change alpine processor to dolby digital

---

My new VRx landed in Aus today, meaning your one is here for the taking when you are ready.

------------------
Car Audio Australia Manager
Car Audio Magazine Editor
Fast Fours Audio Editor
Web Audio Direct Director
Sound Quality System
- Source Unit: Pioneer DEH-P900HDD
- Multimedia: Pioneer AVX-P7300DVD - 5" Headrest Screens
- Front Stage: Morel HCW8 8" - Morel CDM54 3.5" - Morel Supremo 3" Tweeters
- Rear Fill: Morel Integra 6" Coaxials
- Subwoofer: Hertz Air Mille 3800 15" Infinite Baffle
- Amplifiers: Audison VRx 6.420.2 - Audison VRx 4.300.2
- Other: GPS Satellite Tracking
Please do not PM me, use email - mrtek@optusnet.com.au

quote:

---

Originally posted by ubugger:
i thought you were good with grammer :P

---

hee,hee, nah, you guys are too young!

probably before your times to remember 'kylie mole' from The Comedy Show on tv. she was renowned for saying 'how embarrassment'...which is why i put it in quotes.

ripped: SPL most definitely ain't my thing!

jimbo: i hear what you're saying. i'm going about things completely back-to-front.

marc: sweet, another paper weight.

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Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

[Edited 1 time by shiny_car on 02 October 2002 at 02:56]

Just wait till I convert you to loooow tuned ported bass

------------------
Mazda SP20 - NOT yellow,Dynamat Extreme and G Spot in front doors
HU - Alpine CDA-7876RB
Audison VRx 2.150EX front stage amp
JL Audio 500/1 Class D monoblock sub amp
Front Stage - Morel HCW 6.5 woofers, Morel MT2 tweeters, Morel MX2.2 x-overs.
Rear fill - stockies with power from HU (not that they get any)
Sub - Kicker S12L72 in 75 litre 30Hz slot-ported display box.
Stinger cables and connectors etc
TEAM AUDISON SQ WITH ATTITUDE

quote:

---

Originally posted by shiny_car:

probably before your times to remember 'kylie mole' from The Comedy Show on tv. she was renowned for saying 'how embarrassment'...which is why i put it in quotes.

---

What about Effie on Acropolis Now? She used to say the same thing

------------------
What car do I drive? 67 XR Falcon
-----
Arsenal FA Premiership #12, Double Winners 1970/71, 1997/98, 2001/02
Team Burton Snowboarders need only apply
Gear? Alpine, PG, MBQuart and JL Audio

quote:

---

Originally posted by mlaich:
What about Effie on Acropolis Now? She used to say the same thing

---

doh! i think that's who i meant.

how embarrassment.

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/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

I think we're showing our ages here.

Aah, I used to love that show. "Let's go in the Monaro ..."

------------------
What car do I drive? 67 XR Falcon
-----
Arsenal FA Premiership #12, Double Winners 1970/71, 1997/98, 2001/02
Team Burton Snowboarders need only apply
Gear? Alpine, PG, MBQuart and JL Audio

the man with the wacky ideas just walked in!

shiny dont change it (keep the alpines )

why not get some actuators and have the sub box movable, the when u enter SQ comps u press a button and the box slides out and turns around (would look awsome) and the for show u have it in it's origanal positon?

maby not
just an idea, i have too much spare time and not enough $$$$

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SPL? it's overated come to the SQ side of things!

wanna buy something car audio? buy it here! WebAudioDirect!

Oh man, i feel old now since i can remember 'how embarrassment' and kylie mole

I've found the same sort of thing as you Shiny while playing with the home sub in the car, rear-loaded sounded MUCH better. To my ears anyway

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TEAM /////ALPINE
TEAM Digital-Is-A-Marketing-Gimic Member

"The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action."

Hey Shiny
Just more side tracking...
Refresh my memory...which Alpine proc have you got?
I've got the PXAH600 but am thinking of the 510 (coz the 600s been discontinued)...any thoughts?
My 600 has some issues...she no like when you short things out...

quote:

---

Originally posted by silverpoint:
Refresh my memory...which Alpine proc have you got?
I've got the PXAH600 but am thinking of the 510 (coz the 600s been discontinued)...any thoughts?

---

oh no, is your H600 fried?

yes, i'm currently running the PXA-H600. however, it's far from tuned coz i have yet to finish installing the front-right speakers!

but i'm nearly there. even so, the flexibility of the H600 is great, including parametric EQ. so i'm waiting to do the auto time alignment, phase, and gain settings.

and yes, the new processor will be the PXA-H510, featuring dolby digital 5.1. i'll use a sony PS2 as a DVD source (i'm yet to discover if the fibre optic digital hook-up will work ok in terms of 'selecting' the PS2 as the source without Ai-Net).

the H510 looks the goods in terms of DVD: dedicated centre channel output with 2-band parametric EQ, level adjustments for all channels, plus the common parametric for other channels and time alignment. it does lose some features, including auto-tuning of TA/phase/gain. and in fact no phase adjustment from what i can tell, and manual TA settings.

on paper, the H510 doesn't have the SQ of the H600, but i doubt it's audible. for example, lower dynamic range, lack of phase adjustment, proprietory M-DAC (not exactly sure what this is, except it's 24-bit x5 DACs in this processor) compared with dual burr-brown 20-bit DACs, etc. but overall, i doubt these will manifest as anything worse, perhaps even better.

same overall design for the processor chassis and remote and 3 digital inputs (HU/stacker/DVD).

i look forward to trying it out in the future.

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[Edited 1 time by shiny_car on 08 October 2002 at 18:09]

No, it's not fried. The sub output has chronic noise. Sounds like either an op-amp on the output stage of the sub outs is on it's way to lunch or there's issues with the surrounding componentry. You can't easily diagnose these buggers coz they're all surface mounted LSIs...don't think it'll be a cheap fix either...
Hmmm...I think I would prefer to stick with the 600. I like the Burr-Browns. The M-Dacs are also used in their stackers. It doesn't sound as warm as the BB Dacs.
Not thinking of selling your 600 are ya

whats sq like when you make the sub point up..so like build a sub enclosure in a false floor..

------------------
Front stage : Boston rally splits - Boston - Da best speakers - will be pro's one day
Rear stage : Boston RM 6 inches - Have been sold !
Sub : Yet to decide - Too many subs out there
Amp* 1 * : Sony XM-7547 - A real cosmetic amp - its huge
Amp* 2 * : Signat 2 channel - My boston splits luv this 2 channel amp
Amp* 3 * : Kicker ZR240 - Currently powering nothing
HU : Clarion DXZ 715 - 24 bit da converters - 4 volt output - motorised faceplate - metal face plate - screensaver - cant beat it...

quote:

---

Originally posted by silverpoint:
don't think it'll be a cheap fix either.

---

quote:

---

I think I would prefer to stick with the 600. I like the Burr-Browns. The M-Dacs are also used in their stackers. It doesn't sound as warm as the BB Dacs.
Not thinking of selling your 600 are ya

---

ah ok. that's interesting feedback on the DACs. i haven't had the time/opportunity to try and compare them (not overly easy with all my wiring/Ai-Net cables/fibreoptics). so i shall see how it sounds in the future.

and you're not the first to ask if i'd sell the H600. but no, i'm thinking of keeping it purely for SQ purposes as a swap-over as needed.

boom4U: with my setup, i found the SQ with the sub firing upwards/partly backwards (ie: with the slope of the box), the SQ was excellent. that is, it suits my tastes even better than firing straight into the cabin. if there's any loss in accuracy, the trade-off is worth it with the more authoritative subbass, and with some tweaking/tuning of xovers/levels/time-alignment, i think i will be more than happy.

------------------
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Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

quote:

---

Originally posted by shiny_car:
if there's any loss in accuracy, the trade-off is worth it with the more authoritative subbass

---

i found the EXACT same thing. i actually used pics of your setup for idea's. little did i know at the time you hadn't turned your on yet

i felt the sub was pretty much acting as a mid bass driver, and not a great one. this has led me to the conclusion that as long as there is no delay, rear loading is the way to go (for me), coz with the gains level (flat response) motor control is great, but pump up the subbass and it's a bit of an spl machine

oh well, live and learn.

p.s TEST TEST TEST

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MitsubishiMagnaTR'92

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