Weeeellll now that i've installed it, played with it, etc, for a few days (2 ), i noticed the type R didn't sound "right"... and when it didn't sound right in the sealed box, i thought that i'd switch the +ve and -ve wires around and see what happens...... What happend? Instant bass! Heaps more bass... FUnny enough, in a sealed box, i had -ve of sub to the +ve of the amp... (the wiring is all correct, checked it several times!)... Now, it's inverted, and i thought, hmmm, wonder if i reverse it and make it the correct polarity, and voila, heaps more bass, waaaayyyy too much infact.... So it's now turned down even more! If i fade the front (no rears) out completely, switching the +ve and -ve still makes a large difference... it shouldn't, should it?! I don't understand why it's making such a huge difference.... is it just my imagination? Sorry it's not a hugely important question, more a "i wanna know"... One thought that crossed my mind was alpine expected people to run them inverted, so they switched the +ve and -ve labels around?! Allllsssoooooo, i don't have to play the sub hard or fast or anything, and after about 30 mins of playing, the magnet is *slightly* warm.... warmer than i thought it should be Eh..
Aaron

------------------
Noise producer - Clarion DRX9675
Noise Increasers - MTX 500D - Pioneer GMX-944 - Bridged to the front stage
Making Noise Heard - CDT Audio HD Splits - Pioneer Coax (Bah!)
Low Bumpy Noises - Alpine Type R - Sealed 1 cuft(Going to be 2 if i need it)
------------------
-Team SQ, A Reality Not a Dream :)
-Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

I am not 100% on this as i am drunk

but swapping +ve and -ve reverses the cone movement(as it would normal move "out" on reverse it would go "in") eg 180deg out of phase() and it some times helps (eg when u reverse mount the woofer) to have it play out of phase. and just sometimes the install suits the sub freq to be out of fase by 180deg.

Please correct me as i think i maybe rong

------------------

Team Tycoon - Dollars n dB's
a little Beyond Audio and a little Power = BUUURRRRP

You're not going crazy, it happens with some speakers I've found. I think some speakers are just designed to run a certain direction, or are designed for better efficiency in one direction. Which would explain why almost every driver I've worked with had a +ve & -ve marked.. to prevent botching it up.

There's prolly some other factors considering its in a sealed box.. but those sorta things are best explained by someone else.

------------------
WF Festiva: Clarion, Kenwood, Rockford Fosgate, StreetWires Small, Blue, Different
TR Magna: Alpine, Orion, Kenwood, StreetWires (Upgrading) Big, Maroon, Different

Idle Problems ? Clean your throttle body, IAC & fuel filter
Acceleration Issue ? Tank of PULP with 1 cup Metho & Spitfire
More Power ? Foam filter, Sports muffler, TypeR Badge

Required: Kove Armageddon-M, Optima YT, KAC-923

it's all about phase. and matching it with the other speakers in the car and the accoustics.

it may in fact be that the best phase is neither 0 degrees or 180 degrees, but 63 or maybe 147 degrees. who knows, but unfortunately we are generally limited to using 0/180.

so use what sounds best.

------------------
/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

it shouldn't make it sound any louder, but it can sound better, if the polarity is reversed and the subs are more in phase with your front speakers

------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project

WHats happening is quite common and is due to the filter in the amp or HU (which ever your using obviously) and suggests the filter is a 12 Dn slope. Often a filter will change the phase and so reversing the connections on speakers will put it back in phase.

Its always worth trying sub in both configs, as correct phase is easy to hear, as you have found out. Anyway its often not tried and can make a noticable differnce, so always try it when you set up any system, as you may not be getting the bass you paid for if you dont
peace
Cyberpunky

------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"Out beyond ideas of wrong doing and right doing there lies a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi
"forget the specs, and just listen to what is watt" Cyberpunky
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more? click here
TEAM Digital-Is-A-Marketing-Gimic Member

TO VISIT MY SITE CLICK HERE

so what u do is put the - wire into the + terminal and the + wire into the - terminal and it could make your system sound better could it in any way cause any damage???

------------------
Head Unit - Alpine CDA-7865
Front Speakers - Alpine SPR-175A 6.5" Component Speakers
Rear Speakers - SPR-692B Reference Series 6x9" (Running of the Headunit)
Amp for Fronts - Crossfire TEK 100.2
TEAM WEALL

quote:

---

Originally posted by subwayboy:
so what u do is put the - wire into the + terminal and the + wire into the - terminal and it could make your system sound better could it in any way cause any damage???

---

yes, you simply swap the wiring over: +ve to -ve, -ve to +ve.

some amps have a switch that you can flick between '0 degrees' and '180 degree' phase instead, but same deal.

it is completely safe. remember that the signal to the speakers/subs is 'AC' rather than 'DC', so polarity is largely there as a reference point for phase (eg: wiring your L/R front speakers in phase with each other).

hope this helps.

------------------
/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

sorry to hijack but my alpine 7894RB has sub phase control and u select 0 or 180 degrees is this the same thing as whats being discussed here?

------------------
Head Unit: ///Alpine CDA-7894RB
Front Stage: DLS Magnesium MS6
Rear Fill: JBL GTO 936 MK2
Sub Woofer: Kicker S12L7
Sub Amp's: 2 Response 1x450's
all i need now is my licence!!

TEAM WEALL

Yep. The sub phase control on your HU changes the phase of the signal being sent to your sub - handy as it saves you having to manually swap the +ve ane -ve wires around.

------------------
Pioneer - Morel - JL Audio - Hertz - Alpine - DLS
G Spot - Flashtac - Aeropro
The new home of the little mouse that ROARED!

Does anyone know if the deh-p6450 has phase control??

When i was looking at the earlier 6350 model, it had it. But now looking at my HU, it doesn't seem to have it!
Any ideas?

------------------
Feel me Coming!!!™

Brains: Pioneer deh-p6450 + stacker
Quality: Focal PolyKevlarz 165K
Extra Quality: Canton Pullman 2.10
Juice: Orion cs200.4
Ear bleeding: 2 x 12" Orion XTR3
Juice2: Pioneer GM-X904

I wouldnt worry if HU had it, as you can just do it amp or sub or whichever is easiest. The sw is handy but it only takes a few moments to swap lead and suss things out, and once its correct its a set and forget type deal
peace
Cyberpunky

------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"Out beyond ideas of wrong doing and right doing there lies a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi
"forget the specs, and just listen to what is watt" Cyberpunky
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more? click here
TEAM Digital-Is-A-Marketing-Gimic Member

TO VISIT MY SITE CLICK HERE

So its safe to assume that reversing the polarity on a sub doesnt damage it ???

------------------
SIMPLE SYSTEM
HU: Alpine MDM 7741R (MD)
SUB: 2X 12" Soundstream Rubicons
SUB BOX: Computer designed box, speakers angled for best SPL blah blah blah
SUB AMP: MTX Thunder 4122 (Upgrading to something more powerful)
REAR: Pioneer 6x9's
FRONT:Pioneer Splits
FRONTS AMP:MTX Thunder 4122 (Maybe soon)

TEAM FUKTION

That is correct.

------------------
Pioneer - Morel - JL Audio - Hertz - Alpine - DLS
G Spot - Flashtac - Aeropro
The new home of the little mouse that ROARED!

definitely doesn't damage any sub/speaker, partly coz the speakers rely on an 'AC' signal and not DC.

the main purpose of having +ve/-ve on our subs/speakers/amp outputs is so we can match L/R speakers for correct phase. otherwise it doesn't really matter.

------------------
/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

I also have a type r. I'm going to give it a go tonight.

I've been mucking around with the phase on my 12" Type S...I don't really detect too much of a difference. My sub is in a Honda CR-V and faces the rear. What sort of difference are we talking about here between having the phase one way or the other? Loudness? Tightness? Boominess?

indeed sometimes there's not audible difference with a polarity change (180 degree phase shift). it maybe that a 63 degree, or a 154 degree phase shift may...but such changes are not practical to achieve in most setups. so most people are stuck with 180 degree phases adjustments.

although repositioning the subbox can have similiar effects.

if it does make a difference, you would hear a much 'fuller' subbass, as if you EQ'd it and boosted some of the frequencies.

------------------
/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alpine:
I've been mucking around with the phase on my 12" Type S...I don't really detect too much of a difference. My sub is in a Honda CR-V and faces the rear. What sort of difference are we talking about here between having the phase one way or the other? Loudness? Tightness? Boominess?

---

the bass should sound like its coming from your front speaker a little more

It won't sound any louder/boomier etc but it may be a little more/less in phase with your front speakers, hence a slightly more bass up front sound

------------------
- A proud member of Team Gates - A proud supporter of the CAA SPL project

Here's an experiment...
Run your front stage full range. Then reverse the polarity on your subs. You should notice that in one direction it sounds "fuller", ie more integrated to the front stage and in the other direction it will sound "disjointed", like there is a definite hole in the freq response. Even more obvious if you have access to an RTA.
It's all about phase response and constructive/destructive reflections causing signal summation/cancellation.

i played around with time alignment on the weekend, delaying the signal to the subs by varying amounts relative to the front stage.

at some points, it sounded more 'up-front' but at others it was worse. when i returned it to normal, it was quite up-front as it was so i left well enough alone.

time alignment is basically a digital version of phase or polarity reversal, so it might be worthwhile experimenting with all of them

------------------
Custom SQ System
Dolby Prologic II in 3.1

Source: Clarion DXZ925 w/ DPL2 Decoder - Front Stage: Boston Acoustics Pro 6.5's - Centre Channel: Boston Acoustics Pro 5.5LF - Ambient Satellites: Boston Acoustics 3/4" Kortec Tweeters - Processors: Audiocontrol EQT's - Subwoofers: Earthquake BR12's - Amplifiers: Kicker IX404's - Power: Stinger 1 Farad HPM Capacitor
Sounding sweet and taking it to the street

just wondering, is there much of a difference between the type r and s, compared 2 the difference in price?

quote:

---

Originally posted by SUbaTomIC:
just wondering, is there much of a difference between the type r and s, compared 2 the difference in price?

---

yes, there's a lot of difference. would be best to start a new thread on the topic or do a search.

------------------
/////ALPINE audison DYNAUDIO »»»morel polkaudio OPTIMA Stinger LIGHTNINGAUDIO

Issues of harassment, conflict, vindictive allegations, or unfairness, personal or observed, should be reported to me via Private Messages or at [email="shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com"]shiny_car@caraudioaustralia.com[/email]

You may not hear any difference swapping polarity as your LP xover slopes may not be 12 Db. Many are and so thats why its worth checking, as its coomon for the LP signal to be inverted and so if we do the normal "+" on amp to "+" on spkr connection, we are actually reversing phase.

Some amps will label them so they are correct and others wont so thats why trying it is a good idea. If you know the amp uses 24 dB, 18 dB or 6 dB (for sure, as some brands lie) then dont bother.

Anyway the issue is related purely to the xover not the sub and so you may not hear any diff if your slope isnt 12 dB.

peace
Cyberpunky

------------------
"Electricity is for more than powering windmills" Ali G
"Out beyond ideas of wrong doing and right doing there lies a field. I'll meet you there." Rumi
"forget the specs, and just listen to what is watt" Cyberpunky
"These answers you get, couldnt they be your own signal, bouncing off some object in outer space, some other planet, boomin back atcha???" Freq Nasty
All your base are belong to us! ;)
Like to know more? click here
TEAM Digital-Is-A-Marketing-Gimic Member

TO VISIT MY SITE CLICK HERE