Ok guys, i want to learn more about Front Stage Imaging, Eg, different ways to set up a nice SQ bassed FS.

Can you please post me sone good sites to read up on. (nothing to complecated so others can understand it)

Cheers

IMO it will probably be hard to find something on this topic as all situations are different. Everyone's cars are different and so are their tastes in audio so there is no right or wrong answer on front staging. Different ways to setup a nice SQ based front stage depend on your components, car and musical taste. What you need to do is listen to cars similar to yours that already have SQ systems and see if they sound good to you. Then experiment with yours and see how you can achieve a great front stage. You may do door pods, kick panels, under dash horns or even dash or a-pillar mounted setups but at the end of the day you need to experiment. There is no proven formula.

Hope that helps...

i agree there's probably no single proven ways to do it, but there's many things to consider. and experimenting is usually a key to success; as is having time!

a couple important things include:
*sound deadening
*solid baffles/speaker mounts
*angling and position of speakers
*using speakers that have similar/same tonal qualities
*delivering appropriate bandwidth (freq range) to each driver: whether via passive xover or active
*appropriate (volume) level setting for drivers: attenuation setting or gains for tweets/mids/woofers, etc
*judicious use of EQ
*high quality source: HU/processor/amps

i'm hoping to achieve a highly transparent (ie: so you can't really tell the sound is coming from speakers, but sounds live) soundstage that's dynamic and ambient.

my plan of attack is:
*sound deaden doors (done)
*angled woofer pods in doors (done for my 7" dyn drivers)
*kickpanel mounted dyn midranges and morel tweets
*6-channel active setup via audison amp with inbuilt xovers
*maybe ambient tweeters (spare dynaudio) powered off addition amp

it'll take a lot of work for the installation, then the matter of tuning everything (gains/xovers, etc)! but hopefully it'll work, and it's but one way to build your front stage.

hope this helps.

[ December 05, 2002, 14:25: Message edited by: shiny_car ]

shiny, i've heard that if you want maximum integration between drivers you need to use the same tweeter driver otherwise it is pointless in using two different tweeters for front staging. Even in an 'ambience' setup you need to match tweeters.

[ December 05, 2002, 16:08: Message edited by: vti-2 ]

you're right, i've heard that too, and it all makes sense.

but i'm not sure i wish to buy a second set of morel supremo's, let alone trying to fit them up on the dash inconspicuously.

i'll just have to make do

Well these are good ideas guys, but i think i should be a little more specific. I dont know about all the sound deadening, solid baffles/speaker mounts.

But what im after is technical information on different ways to set up FS's and the different types, As i dont know much about SQ and want to learn more before i start to plan my system.

Also another one is how to go about trial and error way about speaker placment in build the FS.

Ok i hope you guys can understand what i have said

sorry about the run around, i just wanna learn more, so i can acheve an ideal set up, and look at building it around the Proposed NEW Competetion Format for Australia 2003 rules if there going ahead.

hey macca

mate, the best advice i can give you is the same thing i did when starting out to help build a killer front stage - and it is this...

buy some real, live, well recorded music (jazz, blues, maybe rock etc), and take it to a home audio store, or a friend who has a high end home system, and play it. sit in the middle of the speakers, eyes shut, and listen for where each of the instruments and vocalists are coming from. left, centre right? front of the stage, or further down the back? tight or diffuse. high or low on the stage? does the stage seem wide, or does it narrow? then try sitting to the extreme right of the speakers (like you will end up in a car) and see how imaging and image placement changes, how it shifts, how it compresses, how it becomes biased - take mental note. even better, buy a SQ reference disc, like Alpines 'Highway1' that give you stage maps, and use them to identify the placement of each sonic image.

when you have experienced first hand accurate and realistic imaging on a home system, you then have the benchmark for what we all try to achieve in the car. just know that you will never get imaging that good in your car - but you can get pretty close

do this. it is a much faster way to experience what you are trying to achieve, than trying it in the car back and forth and giving youself a compromised benchmark from the beginning.

once you've done that, your reading to start testing speaker locations in your own vehicle - buy some cheap speakers, hook em up, and use blue tac, masking tape, ANYTHING, that will let you experiment and again, take note.

then you'll be on your way my friend

but seriously, give that strategy a go, listen to a high end home system, that is the nirvana we all aspire to.

VTI-2, it isn't absolutely necessary to use identical tweeters in abience setups, i use both Boston Pro aluminium domes, and also their Kortec softdomes, and the blend and seamlessness is superb (but then again i did take quite a bit of time to find a location for the ambient drivers that made them blend). noone has ever even noticed i had ambient tweeters when auditioning, until they were visible pointed out.

sure if you get cheap crappy harsh hissy tweeters and put them with super smooth high end ones, there will be a clash. the key it to use tweeters that match according to your ears - not according to the brand / model on the box

Most of the advice has been very good. No one can actually tell you were the best locations are as already mentioned every car is different.

Sound deadening is used to get rid of any rattles and to make the inside of the car quieter by eliminating road noise.
People will also tell you that by sound deadening your doors you can improve your midbass and to acheive a good strong front soundsatge midbass is very important.

Angling of speakers again depends on how custom you want to go with your install. Custom made pods will allow you do give your speakers a much better angle..i always aim to angle my speakers enough to be pointing toward the intirior light.
Unfortunately since most midbass speakers require an baffle to install onto to not allow the back wave to interfere with the front wave it is hard to do trial and error but what you could do is make some small sealed boxes and place them in your car and keep angling the boxes till you find the perfect angle.
Tweeters on the other hand are much easier to play with, once you have your mids installed use some blutac on the back of your tweeters and play with positioning.

For someone to cover every aspect of acheiving a very good FS will take a very long post of maybe 3 to 4 pages....looks toward Richard!!!!!!

See upcoming issue of CAR AUDIO magazine, where one of our resident SQ'ers (cyberpunky) has a very nice article on basics of SQ

/end shameless plug

They are both Boston though.


I guess that is the thing with car audio, you can always prove a myth wrong and can achieve amazing results by breaking some rules. Although i think you will find using the same tweeter drivers will offer easier setup and seamless integration with the other drivers. It also depends on your taste, not everyone likes to match drivers from the same brand.