Soundwerks
Dec 3 2002, 01:13 PM
Well the decision has been made - I will run a fully active 3-way component setup for the front stage. The amps in question have NO internal crossovers so what I need is an elecronic crossover with 2 x fully adjustable bandpass outputs and 1 x fully adjustable highpass output. I would also like it to have a lowpass output for my sub amp, but am not overly fussed about that one (will just use the onboard crossover in that amp if need be).
The focus is on SQ and build quality. I don't want some cheap and nasty made-in-china unit. Any suggestions are much appreciated as I having trouble finding one that suits my taste.
Paul
splbound
Dec 3 2002, 08:36 PM
Whenever signal processing comes to mind I always think Audiocontrol.. have a browse in their lineup.
I think Image dynamics makes a rack mount style crossover piece as well.... but very unlikely that you will be able to order one locally.... ID support for Australia is bad.... just ask the distributor when the last shipment for ID products came in
Or you can go hard core and have a look at some home/studio crossovers from rane, behringer etc. as you can get the power supplies converted to run from 12 volts. Probably the most expensive way but the pieces are quality.
One last hope would be through some expensive digital electronic signal processor... nice but usually expensive and have to buy as a set with a HU etc..
But unfortunately what you are looking for is not in high demand nowadays, especially as amps usually come with built in crossovers anyway. Hence manufacturers are not that keen on trying to market something that will probably not sell. A good quality external crossover is very hard to find nowadays.....
Patrick
Dec 3 2002, 10:24 PM
I am similarly looking for an electronic external crossover. I managed to find a much discounted kenwood KEC 600, but have no idea as to the level of quality for this unit. Does anyone have experience with this product or feedback on it?
battousai
Dec 3 2002, 10:49 PM
Coustic XM-6 is very good. or nakamichi ec-302
shiny_car
Dec 3 2002, 10:56 PM
why don't you use an audison VRx amp instead. j/k
i figure, unless you buy yourself a digital processor as splbound eluded to, then any xover with the appropriate features from a reputable brand should be suitable. i'm not sure of any particularly exceptional active xovers, although there may be.
what springs to mind may not be readily available either.
*alpine DRE-A500 available around 1996! 5-way xover incl LP, fr/rr BP, fr/rr HP
*phoenix gold MX3i: 3-way, but not sure if offers BP on '2' of them
*audio control 6XS
hope this helps.
Sonic Nirvana
Dec 4 2002, 12:57 AM
I believe Marc Rushton himself has a Crossfire 3-way crossover for sale in the For Sale Forum.
Likely a good thing......
Soundwerks
Dec 4 2002, 01:18 AM
splbound - I did think about the whole digital combo with a h/u. Theya re quite pricey, and not really "my thing" if you know what I mean. I like knobs and dials! Hadn't thought about using a home audio product - I will look into it for sure. I will also check out ID.
battouai - Is the nakamichi unit available is Australia? Its not listed on my copy of their retail price list.
shiny_car - I think I'll leave the VRx to you! I'll stick with my tubes I don;t think the PG unit does BP on both channels (but I'll check again). Audiocontrol is looking the goods atm.
critter - no offernce to marc, but I dunno about Crossfire.
Can you guys see any downfall in running two crossovers?? If I was to use two US Amps US-X3's (each offering 1xLP+BP+HP). I could use one for LP, HP and one BP, and the other just use the BP output. The idea only came to me today.
By the way, thanks for the input guys!
Paul
shiny_car
Dec 4 2002, 02:07 AM
there'd be no significant probs using multiple xovers.
i was going to mention the US amps xovers (as you seem to have their amps) except for their limitations in what you need.
you could use a couple 'smaller' xovers (eg: 2-way if incl at least one BP output). and i'd probably use Y-splitters directly off the HU preouts, feeding to 2 separate xovers. for no great reason though, coz you could just as easily run the 2nd xover off the 1st, but then some of the signals will have to pass through 2 xovers regardless of the amount of filtering occurring (but then you could get tricky and cascade 2 filters for a very steep one! ).
good luck
T-Bro
Dec 4 2002, 06:15 PM
ill be different and go out on a limb, and say full active systems are a bit of a wank almost every person who has one, says the same thing "oh i havent got around to tuning it properly". kinda obvious, when you consider that speaker manufacturers, with their trained audio technicians and expensive labs and test equipment, take SEVERAL MONTHS to design a passive network that matches the drivers correctly. most enthusiasts can barely get the time to install everything properly, let alone spend the countless hours needed to get all the slopes and crossover points and phase relationships in sync with each other.
i've found many fully active systems sound like a$$ - harsh tweeters or muddy midbass, because the owner just uses the individual gains to crank up a particular speaker, easily getting carried away with little regard to the subtle things that really matter (like balance).
anyway everyone praises full-active (i think because the concept, ie 'fully', sounds impressive), yet few people actually do it right - so anyway, there is an alternative perspective to think about
shiny_car
Dec 4 2002, 07:10 PM
fully active man!
'coz i can'
hee,hee, you're very, very right. it takes heaps of tuning to get it right, even to the level of an original passive setup.
but it suits where you mix and match drivers from different brands/series, where a custom passive xover would be required anyway. at least, that's how i'm justifying my upgrade.
Soundwerks
Dec 4 2002, 10:46 PM
I was wondering how long it would take for the anti-active reply I have considered all the options, including building a custom passive. But at the end of the day, I believe active is the way to go. And like shiny said - "why? coz i can!"
At any rate, if I end up not liking the active setup, I can always build some quality passives and see how they go. No big loss.
Definately leaning towards a pair of US Amps 3-way crossovers. Keeps things sort of simple
Thanks again guys. I will enlist you assistance once again when it comes time to find a source unit!
Paul
HU denon Z1 to match the rest of your gear. No need to look anywhere else haha
Sounds like you have a plan for a system, and it sounds like a nice plan, Just got to get u to put a couple of treos in a wall and some 2000xs running them
audible
Dec 5 2002, 06:54 PM
originally quoted by shiny
QUOTE
what springs to mind may not be readily available either.
*alpine DRE-A500 available around 1996! 5-way xover incl LP, fr/rr BP, fr/rr HP
wah!!!!! why did they take them of the market, why!!!!! now alpine wants you to use the built in x overs in their amps but i seriously doubt the quality of these versus a outboard unit.
t-bro.
yeah, heard that line many a time as well. i guess i can count myself in the "my fully active set up is properly tuned" catagory.
problem is that my x over is old, and some of the caps are dry, squiggle noises in the front stage.
loath to replace the x-over simply because i have to tune a new one in!! not a easy task!
protech.
um, erh, heya dood. how ya been? still fussing over your system i see?
Soundwerks
Dec 6 2002, 12:55 AM
KraSe - I'll save the Treo's and 2000x's for a slightly more dedicated SPL car Something to give your Beyond Audio's a pretty good run for their money! As for a Z1 - would love one, but have struggled in all attempts to get my hands on one. If you can point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated. Otherwise its looking like a McIntosh or maybe Clarion HX-D1. Who knows!
Audible - Been pretty good thanks mate. Long time no see! Yeah Im stil fussing over the system. Mainly coz Im rather sick of driving round with half my interior sitting in my office! Plan to be able to debut the car at [cabin] in April. Would love for you to offer your opinions once its up and running!
Paul
OneNonly
Dec 6 2002, 01:23 AM
Still new on this scene - so I don't know many brands - but when I was looking up Audison gear I came across this range of Crossovers:
http://www.audison.com/audiso/crossover/ec...crosspag001.htm<-- Are they not suitable? Not good enough? Not available in Aus? *crawls back into his corner of ignorance*
battousai
Dec 6 2002, 01:30 AM
PS: protech
the naka ec-204 is not officially available in aus but audioart sells em. i own one and its very pristine but has no bandpass capabilities.
the denon z-1 (drool) is available in da US. go to
www.redmountainaudio.com, it lists all the retailers in the US that carry denon. i personally own a clarion HX-D1 and its very transparent and very clear and its much cheaper than a denon too so it may be worth a go.
fraal_moo
Dec 9 2002, 09:37 PM
Considered building your own active crossover?
Check out this link....
http://sound.westhost.com/project09.htm#topmmmmmmm 24dB/oct phase coherent Xover ~~~
Although it'd take some modifications for the car audio scene...
Hey Protech
Take a look at Marchand Electronics...they sell kits for DIY or even Elliott Sound Products...DIY Xovers!
audible
Dec 13 2002, 07:33 PM
lol, i thought your car was your office, what do you mean, half your interior is in the boot instead of your subs or what?
i have heard a while back that sony ressurected their old xec-1000 cross over. they used to sell this unit years ago, in my hey day and it looks exactly like the legendry xec-1000 back then too.
i think sony simply dug the design up out of the archives and shoved it into production which is a good thing, i doubt they did any changes to it which means its "old sony tech" and would be a good unit, but id have to whip the lid of one to tell.
look forward to seeing the old crowd once again, cabin april sounds like a good place to do it. 2002 has been pure hell for me, which explains my absence from the usual places and this site, im sure even simon b is missing me!
the siggy is going into the shop in the new year, once we get to the other side of xmas and i find the final panel i need, drivers door. then it will probably be back to slako's for more kw's and ill probably give the system a freshen up as well. hey, maybe my car will be next to yours at cabin!
lol, just thought of it, 2002 was the siggy's 16th birthday, it is now old enough to be ******!
HyperXL
Dec 13 2002, 08:09 PM
heck, I'll put my car next to the two of yours at [Cabin] and we will have a nice little CAA SQ display happening
Cheers
Beau "My system will never be finished! ARGH" A.
i will park my civic behind u all just to piss you guys off lol
Soundwerks
Dec 13 2002, 10:47 PM
Thanks KraSe! That would be much appreciated But wont you be too ashamed of the civic to take it to the show once your being blown away by Treo! Just Kidding mate! We could be in some friendly west aussie competition which would be a fantastic thing if you ask me.
audible - I do actually have an office (not a particularly flash one, but an office none the less!) Sorta looks more like a small, blown up car audio shop with amps, speakers, subs, boxes, cables and car parts all over the place. I'm pretty much set on a pair of US Amps 3way x/overs, but if I change my mind I'll get you to look into the sony. Not sure what will happen at cabin - maybe a trade stand, maybe just a few cars together. Who knows!
Hyper - could be a goer, just have to wait and see. We oughta catch up to mate.
Paul
Well check out events forum WA people, I want to have you guys over at mine for a BBQ and a few drinking to look at my car and talk about the future of SPL/Sq etc with the guys from RB also welcome. Check out the events forum and reply to me and get some people togeather fo a good arvo at mind having a few and talking car audio with no pressure about anything
[ December 14, 2002, 04:55: Message edited by: KraSE ]
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