cyberpunky: great minds think alike im running 50hz LP for subs, and 70hz HP for front stage, and like you said this provides good BUF affect and the crossover gap isnt a problem. however i use 12db/Oct slopes.

so anyone have any experience with running front speakers with NO high-pass crossover (ie full-range) in an effort to improve BUF?

hey trev!

so you run your boston pro's full-range, and it sounds great huh? too cool! your feeding them significant power too (mine get about 50wrms but i also have a centre speaker and ambient tweeters so i have to share the power around). so you dont have any problem with the Pro's bottoming out or anything?

your right, the Boston Pro's can handle 400w so they are more up to the task of handling sub-bass than alot of speakers. Boston Acoustics actually sells the Pro 6.5 LF drivers for use as standalone bass drivers, in adition usage as mid-bass/mid-range drivers which they are usually used for, so supposedly they are up to full-range operation.

anyway, if it really works and the speakers still sound clean and deep, i will give it a try

sub 50hz

mids 100hz,

would love some mids that went lower or if i could get these to go lower but they just dont like it

Sub 63Hz LP 24db/oct
Fronts 63Hz or 80Hz Hp 24db

Ive run my MBQuart 6.5's full range before with probably arround 120wrms into them, only with extreemly low bass(under 30hz) at very high levels have i heard them bottom out, other than that they cry out for more power. Like the bostons people have put 200+wrms through the Quarts with no problems.

Once i get my 8's installed up front i will run 63hz Hp @ 24db, or arround 75Hz Hp @ 12db

just a follow-up post:

i tried my Boston Pro 6.5's full-passed as an experiment. as a result, greater up-front mid-bass and even sub-bass was evident, providing more weight and noticable low end extension. while the power handling was still good at high volume, the speakers did sometimes bottom out/unload when pushed really hard - this was cause for concern, as obviously there are times when we all like to go nuts with the volume.

but the end reason why i decided not to leave them on full-pass, was that they became loose and flabby, losing their tight, clean output that i like. this lack of control forced me to return to high-passing them where their bass extention was tighter, edgier and more refined.

not to be defeated, i found a solution elsewhere - my boston pro 5.5LF centre speaker has been running 110hz HP as it is a 5" but i decided to see if it could go lower to 70hz. it did! and maintained full control but with greater mid-bass output and punchier attack.

so with all 3 front speakers HP@70hz i have now found satisfaction

dude, you'd probably find that with more amplifier power on tap, and a more robust amp design/internals that the mids will sound less flabby at full range.
maybe we should add that to the list of experiments if you decide to take up my offer of the VRx experiment

[ February 10, 2003, 19:37: Message edited by: Mr_Bob ]

hey mate!

well, im not one for amplifier worship as is known BUT i am open minded, and would be willing to patch in the vrx to see if significant and welcome improvements are evident. with some help it would only be an afternoons undertaking.

that said, my system has been commented on as having extremely fast transient attack in its current form, due mostly to my selection of speakers and headunit, but also that im running (like 98% of people) transister amplifiers which generally exhibit this (valve and tube amps on the other hand, generally give up some transient attack for a more liquid and silky response).

anyway, as my system will be at the top of its game (i hope!) by March CAASQ, i would be willing to then do an in-car amplifier test to judge any improvement/changes. and im sure there will be some change, my interest will be if its welcome, appreciable and in accordance with the $RRP of the component.

ps - the same amp (kicker ix404) i use for my front stage, i also use for my subwoofers in bridged-mode, which are low passed at 50hz (ie play low to very low bass) and they do not bottom out at full (non-clipped) volume - so it makes me think the loose and flabby sound of the full-pass 6's is more a result of their size, rather than the amplifier.

who knows!

So what procesors do you guys use to set your cutoffs so finely? I am looking at investing in something nice but i dont know where to start. Can anybody help me out?

i use the crossovers in my headunit, and also those in my amplifiers.

70hz low pass. My front stage lacks midbass

i lack heaps of punch

sub LP at 65hz 24db and splits HP at just over 60hz (bout 62hz i think) on 18db slope.

great midbass and integration up front altho sub sometimes overwhelmes the upfront bass but there is also slight difference in my frontstage power and sub power.

960Hz @ 48dB/octave LP

Kdog, you realise that runing such a high LP filter on your sub will drag your soundstag rearward?
unless of course, you've mounted your sub in the footwell or something..
i can't imagine it'd sound good either, did the car audio shop set that for you?

typo?....im pretty sure k-dog knows what he's doing

anyway 80hz sub (24db/oct) and when i get round to putting in the rubicon and setting the x-over (thanks again gmhvns) everything im imagining a 90-95 hp is where i'll be

For SQ, 50hz.. for loud daily driving, 80hz..

Mr_Bob - You'd could be suprised..........

100hz(my HD got 0-200hz),18db slope(0-24 slope),LP, i oso feeling not right by putting the crossover at 100HZ, but its sound just right to me

100hz.. the front stage has too big a "gap" otherwise. IMO anyway
Also gives some very interesting bass positional effects you wouldn't otherwise get

well this weekend i experimented with a new approach, LP the sub at 120 Hz, but also use a 30 band EQ on the sub to custom shape its response. EXCELLENT RESULTS. i know it sounds terrible, but the upfront impact and weight is superb, the EQ really lets you blend the mid's and subs together. only bad thing - it sucks for hard booming

well ive got my subs low passed at 125 Hz, as my HU only has 50, 80 or 125 as options. I have my fronts running full and rears highpassed, not sure at what freq tho. ive tried lots of different combos of settings while driving around (im a pizza driver, not much else to do!!) and have found this setup to give the best compromise of tight, punchy bass, and still maintaining a decent soundstage up front. once i get the time/money to sound deaden my doors/boot and get a new FS amp im sure i will reevalutate my settings.
Ive had my splits running full range pretty much all the time, if im playing something crazy bassy ill hp them at 50, but thats about it. mine are also getting only 50rms at the moment, but i had them bridged for 100w before i got my rears, they were more bassy with 100w, and i couldnt notice any distortion/bottoming out of the speakers even at very high volumes.

hey dudes what's the theory behind using a hpf of say 60hz and a lpf of 50hz - that means you're losing 10hz of range, right ? which I would of thought would be pretty important down that low.. I have mine setup to overlap by about 10hz atm, but will give it a shot tomorrow - but still.. hmm

cause its not like a barrier, filters err taper off, so when you add the two tapering off, it kinda adds to one....errr

LP---- /----HP

now if u add the two slopes together, it kinda gives a flatish bit in the middle...i cant explain it properly....probably bassA will

exactly, crossover filters are not brickwall filters, they roll off gradually, so the 'gap' is actually filled in by the roll off

[in reality, brickwall filters do not exisit, it is an impossibility, all filters must roll-off, all you can control is the rate/steepness of roll-off]

That is correct, the crossover frequency is actually the -3dB (or -6dB depending on alignment) point, so assuming the 2 speakers are at the same level you would set the crossover point with a small gap if they are the -3dB points, or at the same frequency if they are -6dB poins..

Of course if the frequency response of the speakers is not flat around the crossover point, then some extra overlap or underlap may work better..

[ September 18, 2003, 21:52: Message edited by: Bassaholic ]

hmm interesting idea guys - thanks for your input. I gave it a burl and managed to pick up a fair bit of mid-bass - but i reckon the majority of that was because i went from around an 80hz split down to a 50lpf/60hpf. I didn't really think my splits would go that low and still sound composed, but they've come through nicely and i'm damn impressed. I reckon the best bit though is that it didn't cost me a cent which is bloody amazing for car audio!! I guess the next step is to go to a fully active front stage.. mmmm tempting thanks again!

I've got my sub LP at 80hz, splits HP at 50.... My splits can handle it, so I say why not

I want more midbass....

everyone wants more mid-bass